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Topic: I got a jury summons today! Ugh....

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-25-2006 12:35 AM

quote: Chris Hipp
In other words, stupid people elect stupid politicians to decide what is taught in our schools rather than, I don't know, scientists or historians; ya know, smart people.

Hurray! There is a smart person out there on this thread... Thats exactly why I won't vote. Now if only those smart folks were running for office... but hey... they are too smart to be doing that [Big Grin]

.

Mark

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Dave Williams
Wet nipple scene

Posts: 1836
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 08-25-2006 04:49 AM

quote: Chris Hipp
This is a problem with democracy, it allows your dumbest people to make the decisions. In other words, stupid people elect stupid politicians to decide what is taught in our schools rather than, I don't know, scientists or historians; ya know, smart people.

While I will not argue that for various reasons (mostly political) there are many uneducated people in the US, your statement that stupid people elect stupid people that decide what stupid stuff is taught to our stupid kids, leaves out many important details regarding how this happens.

Since a majority of eligible people in the US do not actually vote, by your assertion that only stupid people elect stupid people, then the majority of the US is actually the smarter, but for some insane reason, they do not vote. If they are so smart, why can they not get themselves together to elect smart people? This is one of the worst misconceptions about the US and it's system.

The problem is that too many self proclaimed smart people for too long orchestrated a school system designed to keep the majority of americans uneducated and uninterested in voting, and convinced that their vote cannot possible make a difference.

It isn't about smartness, for education cannot increase IQ, only the individual person can either take what is their and use it for the betterment of mankind, or just do what the so called smart people want them to do.

Information isn't about smartness, it is about power. What those in power have is the information they want sent around to keep them in power. Do not mistake position for power. Holding an office is not power. There are many people in greater positions of power that have never held office.

The US is not a democracy, however the 50 states within it are, so the educational system will change from state to state. Here in Utah, neither the elected representatives nor the governor can instruct what the schools can and cannot teach. While many bills have come and gone, all have failed, and if passed would be killed by the Utah supreme court for violating our state constitution. Our state constitution demands the state pay for education, and only the nine member panel of the board of education can outline curriculum. Our board of education here is rather educated, however mostly very old and out of touch with reality. This I fear is the real reason that many educational systems are failing in the US, not stupid polititians.

Ciao

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-25-2006 08:14 AM

quote: Dave Williams
Since a majority of eligible people in the US do not actually vote

Da... Its that smarter majority that won't bother to vote the stupid people into office. Since the majority of both parties are all stupid people that doesn't leave many smart people left to want to do the pickin.

Also Dave, There is a state board of education that does set the education guidelines... its not set by individual board of educations of each district! There are state laws that set the minimum standards... don't send your kid to class and you's better have proof you're home schooling him/her! Each distirct does however work with the State office of education on establishing curriculum. So until these main people pull their heads out of their asses its just going to be the way it is. Also Bush's "No Kid Left Behind" program is a total failure at this point in time. It has done absolutely nothing but make things far more complicated for teachers than anything else while it has yet to be of any benefit to any kid in a classroom. IN fact many teachers locally here in the state have left teaching as a career because of its wastefulness. I'd bet that when ole Georgie leaves office his program crumbles quickly.

See:
Utah Office Of Education

And for what its worth:
Da State Boad of Educatin

Mark

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Chris Hipp
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1462
From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas)
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 08-25-2006 09:50 AM

If a board of ten or twelve, or however many, people vote to teach that the earth was created in six days in a science class, then they qualify as stupid. The people that elected them and support their decision qualify as stupid. I suppose most people are stupid and they should be represented.

I agree 100% with your reasoning behind why certain things are taught and other things are left out. I just wonder how long it will be until the American Revolution is left out of our history classes.

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Aaron Mehocic
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 804
From: New Castle, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-25-2006 10:14 PM

Its here right now Chris. In the Early American course I teach, references to the American Revolution are so politically correct I think Washington and Jefferson wouldn't even begin to understand them. The authors refer to actions taken during the war as "rituals". And, of course, there are are pages and pages of trivial facts about minority participants, but no solid footing as to why the war was fought in the first place.

I'm done, and will not say anything more.

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Rick Raskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1100
From: Manassas Virginia
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 08-26-2006 05:06 PM

So the government can't determine what is taught in the public schools? Think again. In Virginia, they have what is known as Standards of Learning. Collective performance on the SOL tests relates directly to how schools are funded. So, as might be expected, they teach students how to pass the SOLs. In my opinion, it's a backdoor way of forcing curriculum. Okay, so you think that's crap? Maybe so, but they who institute such crap are elected by those "stupid people" who take the time to vote. Can we do anything about it? Hell no, unless we get off our asses and vote too. As a veteran with kids educated in the public schools, I think the right to vote is precious and should not be taken for granted. Think I'm FoS? Maybe so, but that's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-26-2006 06:46 PM

We just had an election for County Commissioner. Something like 24% of the voters turned out. (Not unusual for a non-presidential election.) There was a one-vote difference.

They had a recount as required by law. One ballot was found to have been "spoiled" incorrectly by a judge, so that vote was counted. This resulted in the election being a tie. So, BY LAW, the thing was decided by putting the names in a hat and having the county clerk draw while blindfolded.

The resulting winner was the guy who HAD lost before the recount, and the loser was the person who CLEARLY represents more people in the county. If only more of those bozos had spent the 2 minutes required to vote. Now we're stuck with a commissioner who represents a minority of the people in the southern half of the county. Yes folks, your one vote CAN make a difference. (I voted.)

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Aaron Mehocic
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 804
From: New Castle, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-26-2006 06:47 PM

When I graduated with my teaching degree in 1998 Virginia had the toughest standards of all the 50 states when it came to the National Teachers' Examinations (now called PRAXIS). Back then most states in the so-called "heartland" didn't even require the test as a means for licensure.

What I'd want to watch for as you suggest it Rick is how the education system in Virginia nose-dived over the last five years and how that will dog your Senator Allen's chances if (when) he runs for the Presidency in '08.

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 08-26-2006 06:51 PM

quote: Mike Blakesley
So, BY LAW, the thing was decided by putting the names in a hat and having the county clerk draw while blindfolded.

Wouldn't it have been more Montana-style to have a gunfight between the two candidates?

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-26-2006 06:53 PM

I totally agree with Chris and Aaron. The minority participants (mostly Blacks) are "revisionists" and are totally taking over and teaching horseshit far from our country's true history. THEY distort our history to make it appear PC ....as ***THEY*** want...NOT as to what ACTUALLY took place.. I find it disgusting.

I think MOST school boards (and political "leaders".. "leaders"???? HA!) are pussies and will NOT argue for the historical truth...they are too afraid for their phony bologna jobs and bow to the whoreshit! (notice the spelling!) HA!

JFC!!!! God FORBID to offend a fucking minority!!!!!

How fucking sad.

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Aaron Mehocic
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 804
From: New Castle, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-26-2006 07:00 PM

Wouldn't it have been more Montana-style to have a gunfight between the two candidates?

Na, one would expect crap like that in Texas, Arizona or South Dakota. But check out Bandolero! as to what Jimmy Stewart and Dean Martin say about Montana.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 08-26-2006 07:29 PM

I always wondered why, if a bunch of non-scientists can tell teacher in a science class that things which are proven by empirical evidence, like the age of the earth being 4 to 5 BILLION years old is a THEORY, and you can just as easily hold that it could also be 6 thousand years old (and I assume FLAT as well), then what is to stop this same kind of "thinking" to claim that the pi, or even 2 plus 2 = 4 are also just a theories? We arrive at pi and 2 plus 2 = 4 by scientific, intellectual reasoning, just as we arrive at the age of the earth and the fact that it is a round sphere in an orbit around the sun and not the sun going around the earth. If you can throw those conclusions out claiming they are just a THEORIES, then there is nothing that can be reasoned to, we cannot know anything and you might as well just close the damn schools and tell everyone to go home and figure it all out for themselves by using a divining rod or looking at tea leaves or voodoo or whatever the hell else they think makes sense to them personally and throw out the wisdom and compilation of knowledge that man has gained over his entire history because it's ALL THEORY, according to this moronic way of "thinking."

Only if you throw out scientific knowledge, then you don't get to benefit from what science has given us. You don't get to use medicine or drive a car or listen to a radio or watch TV ...etc, etc. because that's all just theory and you know what, try building a skyscraper or ANYTHING if you hold to the idea that science is only theory. Go figure out how to power a jet plane without science. See if you can find the way to do any of this using the wealth of knowledge that comes out of the creationism theory.

Something has gone terribly wrong in the brainstems of huge portion of the population; it's seems to be turning into a pandemic....but that's just a theory.

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 08-26-2006 07:49 PM

The uneducated, uninformed and dimwitted should not be encouraged to vote.

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 08-26-2006 07:55 PM

quote: Bill Enos
The uneducated, uninformed and dimwitted should not be encouraged to vote.

That partially happens automatically, to a certain degree, because those people don't understand the importance of voting and its historical significance but see it as a nuisance. Which was more or less the original point I wanted to make which kicked off this interesting discussion.

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Aaron Mehocic
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 804
From: New Castle, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-26-2006 08:48 PM

quote: Frank Angel
then what is to stop this same kind of "thinking" to claim that the pi, or even 2 plus 2 = 4 are also just a theories?

And we already do that too. Its called Outcome Based Education or popularly known as OBE. In OBE 2+2=3 or 5 or 10 or whatever until Johnny can figure it out for himself. The problem is if Johnny is never told he is wrong then he just goes through life thinking his calculations (outcomes) are always right. Thats one of hundreds of reasons why millions of Johnnies are now entering the workforce with no personal responsibilities. And, of course, no concept of proper math, science or English skills.

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