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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » State of California says: turn off AC on hot days (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: State of California says: turn off AC on hot days
Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 07-24-2006 06:40 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There seems to be some seriously weird weather going on right across the Northern Hemisphere. I've just got home from a week at a conference in Maine. It was in the low 30s C / mid 90s F when I left north-east England last Tuesday, and there was barely a cloud to be seen all the way from Amsterdam to Boston. In New England the weather was more of the same, except for Friday night and Saturday when it rained quite heavily (but the temperature didn't drop significantly, making it muggy as hell). Back in Yorkshire, it seems the weather never let up.

You'd have thought that powering air conditioning units was an ideal application for photovoltaic panels - you're going to want to use a/c when there's lots of bright sunlight around to generate the power for it. If the makers of domestic split unit air conditioners bundled them with a panel or two and an installation kit, that might be one way of reducing mains power demand.

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002


 - posted 07-24-2006 06:56 AM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Frank Angel
When I was a kid, I remember my dad explaining to me that electricity was sold with break points. They more wattage you used, the less it cost per watt, thus encouraging you to use MORE, not less. Boy have times changed.

Our power is priced that way right now (Northwestern Washington). You pay a certain price for the first so-many kWh... then another figure for the next so-much, and so-on. If you have a demand meter, the surcharge comes next... then the taxes, fees, a "meter charge", and "tax recovery fee", etc. etc. Our bill usually has 3 or 4 price tiers on it.

In the early 80's, my in-laws had a contactor mounted next to their meter. The contactor was wired to a private phone circuit that was controlled by the power company. During "critical hours", the company could activate those contactors, which would shut down your air conditioning. This was in Sacramento. I don't know anything else about the program... how it worked or if it still exists... but it did then.

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Mark Hajducki
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 500
From: Edinburgh, UK
Registered: May 2003


 - posted 07-24-2006 11:41 AM      Profile for Mark Hajducki   Email Mark Hajducki   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Gordon McLeod
all new meters are time based smart meters so you get different rates baased on the total system demand at the time
How much do the rates vary (is by actual demand or just time of day)

The only system like that I have seen in operation is the 'white meter' system which provides cheap electricity at night for use with storage radiators. It works on a simple time basis.

----

The UK may have power shortages in the winter as there is too much reliance on gas (for direct heating and electricity generation) and minimal gas storage facility.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-24-2006 11:42 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rochester is having a hotter than usual summer. I find that A/C is really most needed when the humidity gets high. We usually have a home A/C setpoint of 80-82 F, but it gets lowered when we need to get the relative humidity inside down to a more comfortable level.

When it's cool outside (most summer evenings), the windows get opened, and the A/C is off.

Our utility's nuclear plant (Constellation Generation Group's Ginna plant on Lake Ontario) has just been granted NRC permission to increase output by 16.8 percent. Living only 10 miles south of the plant, we hope it doesn't compromise safety:

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/news/2006/06-092.html

quote:
The Nuclear Regulatory Commission has approved a request by Constellation Generation Group to increase the generating capacity of the R.E. Ginna Nuclear Power Plant by 16.8 percent. The NRC staff determined that Constellation could safely increase the reactor’s output primarily by upgrading certain plant systems and components. NRC staff also reviewed Constellation’s evaluations showing the plant’s design can handle the increased power level.

The NRC's safety evaluation of the plant’s proposed power uprate focused on several areas, such as the nuclear steam supply systems, instrumentation and control systems, electrical systems, accident evaluations, radiological consequences, operations and training, testing, and technical specification changes. For added confidence in the analysis, the NRC staff also conducted independent calculations and evaluations of selected areas.

The power uprate for the plant, located about 20 miles east of Rochester, N.Y., will increase its generating capacity from approximately 525 to 610 megawatts electric. Constellation intends to operate Ginna at the higher power level following its fall 2006 refueling operations.



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Bill Gabel
Film God

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From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 07-24-2006 01:14 PM      Profile for Bill Gabel   Email Bill Gabel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As of today there are still 2000 ConEd customers in Queens still without power since early last week. They got about 20,000 back up over the weekend. During last weeks heatwave ConEd had a multi-equipment system problem.

quote: Dan Lyons
why can't they just build more damn power plants.
No one wants to live next to them.

Two years ago ConEd wanted to build a substation in the Chelsea area of Manhattan (24th@6th Ave). No one wanted it in the area, but ConEd won. There was a parking lot and a 5 story apartment building on the site.

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Jason Burroughs
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 654
From: Allen, TX
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-24-2006 02:14 PM      Profile for Jason Burroughs   Email Jason Burroughs   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Power plants suffer the same problem as prisons, sewage treatment plants etc. They are needed, but suffer from NIMBY - Not In My Back Yard.

While simply adding more and more power generation capacity is not the only solution, as technology advances it will be easier and more cost effective to conserve power, than to utilize it.

Texas has sufficient power capacity at this time, however a large portion of it comes from coal. The addition of a few coal plants upwind from the North Texas areas has, and will negate the advances made in cleaning up the air. There is technology to make coal cleaner (but not clean) but power companies are reluctant to implement them because they are costly, and there is no incentive to them to do so.

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Chris Hipp
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1462
From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas)
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted 07-24-2006 03:02 PM      Profile for Chris Hipp   Email Chris Hipp   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sounds like what they do here with water. The city always tells us to save water, don't water your yards, take shorter showers, and whatever. In the summer they automatically increase your bill for extra drainage due to yard watering (even though the water gets soaked into the ground and doesnt go through the city drains. So you end up using less water and paying more.

The last time I drove by it the lake was still full, so I don't know what the problem is.

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John Pytlak
Film God

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From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
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 - posted 07-24-2006 03:03 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Are the recent "brown outs" and "black outs" due to insufficient generating capacity for record peak loads, or due to a breakdown of distribution capacity?

I can appreciate the effect coal-fired plants have on air pollution, as I live downwind of the midwest power plants and so I deal with "acid rain" on a personal basis. I spend quite a bit on sodium carbonate to maintain proper water pH in my pool (sodium carbonate is used to neutralize excessive acidity). Almost always have to add some after a rainstorm. As a gardener, I know the cost of keeping soil pH at the proper level.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

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From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-24-2006 03:18 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The solution to the "sewer fee" problem is (at least in this area) to get a second water meter installed. That way, you can have one water meter for "household" use (where most of the water ends up in the drain) and another for "lawn" use. With this setup, you will not need to pay sewer charges on the water used for "lawn" use because, obviously, it doesn't enter the sewer. The only downside to this is that you have to pay to have the second water meter installed.

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Bill Gabel
Film God

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From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
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 - posted 07-24-2006 03:31 PM      Profile for Bill Gabel   Email Bill Gabel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: John Pytlak
Are the recent "brown outs" and Black outs" due to insufficient generating capacity for record peak loads, or due to a breakdown of distribution capacity?

ConEd has promised a report within two weeks. AP

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Jason Burroughs
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 654
From: Allen, TX
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-24-2006 03:46 PM      Profile for Jason Burroughs   Email Jason Burroughs   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Chris,

I don't know what lake you've driven by that was "full" but
Lake Lavon that Mesquite, Plano, McKinney, Allen, Richardson, etc get their water from is 13ft below the conservation pool. The lake is essentially at 50% of its "normal" capacity. The above cities have had various water restrictions in place for a large part of the summer so far, and will into the foreseable future.

Edit:

Chris may have been referring to annother lake in the area that is only 2.5ft below the conservation pool. Lake Ray Hubbard is one of the lakes that the City of Dallas gets their water from. The watershed for this lake has recieved considerably more rain than Lavon did, though there is not a great distance between them.

[ 07-26-2006, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: Jason Burroughs ]

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-24-2006 04:05 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
 -

The consequences of poor water management.

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Ron Yost
Master Film Handler

Posts: 344
From: Paso Robles, CA
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 07-24-2006 10:19 PM      Profile for Ron Yost   Email Ron Yost   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To answer John's question, here in California the problem is overloaded distribution systems during peak-demand times (12 p.m. to 7 p.m.) on extremely hot days. They say we have plenty of available power, thanks to the long-term deal ex-Gov. Gray Davis signed after the shafting California got from Enron a few years ago.

As far as I know, the State's not telling people that they can't run their A.C. They're asking for voluntary conservation. Turn up the thermostats slightly, etc. There may be more extensive requests in heavily-overloaded ares, tho .. I don't know. At least there are no 'rolling blackouts' yet, but they could come if voluntary conservation doesn't work!

Ron Yost .. boiling through another day in Paradise. [beer] but no pool. [Frown]

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-24-2006 11:10 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When I arrived in Oakland today and went to BART the signs said there will be delays because the trains are running slower to conserve electricity.... I say thats a crock... they still did at least 65 mph in the long stretches. I guess they just wanted to implant in peoples brains that they are doing their part [thumbsdown] .

Mark

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 07-25-2006 04:12 AM      Profile for Carl Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Carl Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
hey mark-- what are you doing in the 510?

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