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This topic comprises 8 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
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Author
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Topic: Vinyl record sales increase
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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 08-21-2008 09:32 PM
I was listening to a radio interview a few years back and the guest was talking about how the reason records have that rich, warm, full, whatever-you-want-to-call-it sound was because of groove echo. Basically because the needle sits in the groove it echos around and makes it sound different. His point was that although many prefer the sound, it was not the artist's original intent to have that added echo. CDs, by comparison, have a much more accurrate duplication of the sound with a greater frequency range, but their problem is that transferring a sound wave to digital takes what normally would be a nice, smooth, rounded sound wave and squares it off a little when it becomes 0s and 1s. Some players then have the ability to round off and smooth out these squared off waves making it close to the original wave again.
So assuming their is a quality production process in place and quality playback components, this guests general view was that CD technology is capable of producing a tone much closer to what the artist/producer originally intended, but because of this groove echo, many would think a record sounded better because side-by-side, the CD would seem like it was missing something.
This is a very paraphrased version of what was being discussed, as I heard this radio program probably 10 years ago, but can anyone either support or defeat this claim? I have very little exposure to vinyl and I've always been interested by the passionate preference of it's collectors.
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Monte L Fullmer
Film God
Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 08-21-2008 09:47 PM
quote: Robert E. Allen
Well, maybe I'll get a chance to start over.
Very true. Never say die..never. Yes, time gets away from us when we get so involved with other important things and we then forget what was great to have around for entertainment purposes.
I bet when you can find (or build) yourself again a nice component system, or a onepiece cabinet set like your Zenith, (my father had a huge Philco unit that had sound to behold, just that the tonearm had a crystal cartridge instead of magnetic..) and once again, to enjoy the vinyl world again.
quote: Chad Souder
the guest was talking about how the reason records have that rich, warm, full, whatever-you-want-to-call-it sound was because of groove echo. Basically because the needle sits in the groove it echos around and makes it sound different
...Wonder if this guest knew what he was talking about, for the basis of "Groove Echo" was the results from a phenoneom from open reel recordings called "Print Through".
Then, the labs would take these production reels that were infected with this print through would make the lacquers for the printing stampers for the finished product.
Print Through is when the magnetic medium on a length of tape would actually bleed to the next layer on the reel, esp if the mil thickness of the tape was thin enough. Why studios used the most thickest mil - the 1.5mil thickness - for their studio mastering and duplication tapes..to minimize this dreaded print thorugh.
Fairchild then had a wonderful process using magnetic 35mm film film stock which definitely eliminated print through since the film stock thickness is the same as we use today in our projectors.
Later Mercury releases before Philips bought out Mercury, would use the 35mm process, along with Enoch Light and his Command Classics releases.
-Monte
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Stephen Furley
Film God
Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002
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posted 09-28-2008 06:06 AM
quote: Tim Reed
a wax cylinder certainly is not one of a kind
Some are, as some disks are. There were plenty of direct-to disk one-off recordings made. Most, but not all were in pre-tape days, but the BBC still had disk recording facilities for many years; I had a couple recorded there, though these were copied from tape, in the early '70s I think it was.
Does anybody remember the booths in places like shopping centres and railway stations where you could record your voice? I think they were mainly used to send greetings to friends and family. From memory, I think they were smaller than the standard 7", and the quality was terrible. I wonder in one of those machines has been preserved in a museum somewhere?
How were the mass-produced cylinder recordings made? If you used a two-part mould then you'd get two clicks per revolution, as the impression of the joins passed under the needle. How would you make a two-part mould anyway? Recording a one-part mould directly, like internal screwcutting on a lathe sounds like a non-starter. It would be difficult to record directly onto hard metal, there was no electrical recording in those days, it was a purely mechanical process, cutting ridges would be more difficult that cutting grooves, a bit of swarf getting caught up under the cutter could easily damage the recording, a 'boring bar' long enough to reach the far end would have to be quite thick, i.e. heavy, about the last thing you wan in a mechanical recording system. My best guess would be that they recorded a 'wax' master cylinder, Made a mould by plating metal onto it, not so different to the way that disks are made today, but then melted out the wax, leaving the metal mould, and that the contraction of the cylinders as they cooled was enough to release them from the one-piece mould.
Of course, there's a problem with this, if anything went wrong with the plating process and a defective mould was produced, then you've lost your original recording, so you can't make another attempt. At best the artist would have left the studio long before the problem was found, and at worst it might have been a recording of a non-repeatable event. I suppose it's not that different to the risk that film stock could be defective, or could be damaged during processing.
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