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Topic: Who is worse: Aerosmith or KISS?

Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 08-08-2009 12:59 PM

quote: Mike Blakesley
But Frampton and the Bee Gees weren't disco acts either.

Mike, in 1978, the Bee Gees were considered as disco as it comes. Saturday Night Fever, discotheques, that whole scene. And Frampton was high on the teeny-bopper bubble gum list.

Aerosmith was, and is, a heavily AOR station-played, head-banger act.

Don't get me wrong, The Bee Gees are near the top of my all-time favorites, and so is Aerosmith (never much cared for Frampton, though), but they became passe about that time. I don't for one minute agree that Sgt. Peppers killed their popularity, that just happened to be the start of "disco sucks" and it took the Bee Gees with them. Certainly, they kept on trucking and made a big come back. [Smile]

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film Handler

Posts: 60
From: Paris, France
Registered: May 2008

posted 08-08-2009 02:02 PM

Aerosmith on stage are boring. I've seen them a few times. It feels like I've been attending the same show over and over again.
Some of their older records are nice. And, indeed, they have both Rock'n'Roller coaster rides (the Paris version is different from the one in Orlando).
Kiss, on the other hand, have always been fun to watch. Last time I saw them, it was for their Psycho Circus tour and the live 3D video system used on stage was pretty cool. Also cool was turning around and see 18000 people with 3D glasses on. I think I always had a soft spot for Kiss. We screened "Phantom of the Park" a couple of weeks ago.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 08-08-2009 02:07 PM

The Bee Gees or the Brothers Gibb had their first album come out in 1967 this was 10 years before the disco peak. Their music was more geared towards the three part harmonies and sort of a rocking folk sound, at least that's how I thought they sounded. For the Saturday Night Fever album they wrote 5 songs and recorded 4 of them. The songs were Staying Alive, How deep is your love, More Than a Woman, Night Fever and If I can't Have You. The other two songs they had on the soundtrack were recorded on previous albums. Jive Talkin' (1975) and You should be Dancing (1976). It was those seven songs that through the Bee Gees into the, "they are a Disco Act, they must suck".....Andy Gibb didn't help matters either because his solo hits were disco oriented.

quote: Jean-Marc Toussaint
Aerosmith on stage are boring. I've seen them a few times. It feels like I've been attending the same show over and over again.
Some of their older records are nice. And, indeed, they have both Rock'n'Roller coaster rides (the Paris version is different from the one in Orlando).
Kiss, on the other hand, have always been fun to watch. Last time I saw them, it was for their Psycho Circus tour and the live 3D video system used on stage was pretty cool. Also cool was turning around and see 18000 people with 3D glasses on. I think I always had a soft spot for Kiss. We screened "Phantom of the Park" a couple of weeks ago.

The best Aerosmith show for me out of the two times I saw them was for the Nine Lives tour.

Kiss always puts on a good show. I have seen them 5 times 4 with make up and 1 with out.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-08-2009 02:51 PM

Good summary about the BeeGees, Darryl. I guess my point was that they weren't a "disco act," it was just a relatively short phase of their career.

I think the "Disco sucks" thing would have happened without the Bee Gees. You had "Disco Duck" and a whole lot of other really bad records that fueled it. There were WAY more bad disco records than great ones. The Bee Gees productions were high quality records and they had several more big hits after the "Fever" era, but they were white "pretty boys" and therefore made good targets for the disco-sucks movement. I think what ended their run of chart-toppers was their overuse of Barry Gibb's falsetto, combined with the fact the public is fickle and was moving on to the next big thing (punk rock).

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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 08-08-2009 03:32 PM

quote: Bobby Henderson
Aerosmith was already a headlining rock band long long before Run-DMC ever crossed paths with them. The whole idea that Run-DMC "made" Aerosmith is just plain retarded. It is ignorant of 1970's music history.

Who exactly are you responding to, One-Shot Bobby? Nobody said anything about Run-DMC making Aerosmith. You should try reading everything. I stated that I think Walk This Way sounds much better after Run-DMC got done with it, probably because Steven Tyler really sucks at rapping. We're only talking about the one song.

If you listen to the song, Run-DMC does not do the chorus. They only do the rap in the verses. The instrumental doesn't even change that much. Probably because it's Joe Perry playing. It's like Run-DMC listened to the original, thought "Hey, that's song would be really good if the verses didn't totally suck balls. We should do it better." Tyler and Perry must have thought it sounded pretty good too seeing as how they worked with Run-DMC to get it done.

quote: Randy Stankey
You can say that Aerosmith invented rap way back in 1975, long before any of those other assholes were a even stain on their momma's underwear.

Generally, rap is considered to have been born around 1970. Many, myself included, give credit to Bob Dylan's Subterranean Homesick Blues as the first rap song in 1965. Some say Charlie Ryan's Hot Rod Lincoln in 1955. Regardless, Aerosmith certainly didn't invent it. They were probably aware of a growing genre and wanted to try something different.

quote: Mike Blakesley
Aerosmith did a great, faithful rendition of "Come Together" which is one of the few bright spots in it.

If there ever was a case to make a law against remakes... If you want a good remake of that song (tongue firmly in cheek) click here

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-08-2009 04:10 PM

Well, the Aero version is better than the Michael Jackson version. At least the whole thing doesn't sound like it's being performed by robots on "automatic." I do agree that nobody can top the Beatles version but I thought Aero gave it a good shot.

I think it's kind of funny how rock music gets no respect from the R&B and country/western communities, but when those acts want to really crank up the amperage on their live shows, what do they do? Pull out a rock'n'roll song.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 08-08-2009 05:31 PM

quote: Chad Souder
Who exactly are you responding to, One-Shot Bobby? Nobody said anything about Run-DMC making Aerosmith.

I'm responding to you, 40' Wide Asshole Chad. Screw you and your pissy little "one shot Bobby" comment. That's real nice form bringing up shit from a long dead thread.

You did type this retarded comment, earlier in this particular thread, which is keeping things on the current topic:

quote: Chad Souder
Aerosmith needed Run DMC to make "Walk This Way" sound good.

Chad, you must be stone deaf or have just plain horrible taste in music if you really believe that crap.

The original version of Walk This Way sounded far better. The musical arrangement was far superior. The musicianship of the band was much better, especially the guitar work. The original was better recorded. Steven Tyler's vocals were much better on the original.

As for Run-DMC, they mumbled their way through their own lyrics on their knock off of Walk This Way. Quality wise, it is one of Run-DMC's lesser tunes. They're much better when they do their own thing.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-08-2009 05:52 PM

quote: Chad Souder
Generally, rap is considered to have been born around 1970.

You're right on that. I was just using Aerosmith to make a humorous example.

You're right about that MJ version of "Come Together!"

Another rule! Anybody who does a version of that song without permission from the Beatles or Aerosmith should have to undergo repeated plastic surgery and endless facial dermabrasion treatments and chemical peels for the rest of their lives.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 08-08-2009 09:09 PM

WRT "Walk This Way". I think the cover version disappoints in that Steven Tyler's chorus wasn't exactly musical to my ears.

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Geena Phillips
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 198
From: Norcross, GA / USA
Registered: Apr 2006

posted 08-18-2009 09:31 PM

Disco started off in gay and black subcultures; anti-disco sentiment eventually became the "in" thing to do, but make no mistake: Its roots were in racism and homophobia.

The only three important things that came from the 1970s musically were:

Punk
Disco
Queen

As much as I enjoy the music of that era, it'd be hard to make the argument that jettisoning everything outside those three parameters would have ANY appreciable effect on modern culture.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 08-18-2009 09:54 PM

I disagree on that assessment. I'd say that the beginnings of metal by groups like Black Sabbath and Deep Purple to be pretty important.

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Pravin Ratnam
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 844
From: Atlanta, GA,USA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 08-20-2009 08:49 AM

I have to chime in on Walk this Way. I prefer the original version and I actually like Tyler's "rap" on it. Having said that, if you were going to do a cover version, I am glad it was RUN-DMC that did it. I think Run DMC helped Aerosmith more at that stage of their careers rather than the other way around. While I dont agree with Chad that Tyler's rap sucked on the original, I do agree that Aerosmith was pretty much finished in the mid 80s. I think the one two shot of the Run DMC video and the Permanent Vacation album helped Aerosmith surge to a very high level of popularity in the mainstream. It was the perfect timing for both bands and it wasn't just another rock cover or even worse one of those pretentious acoustic slowed down renderings. And you gotta understand what a great pop moment that was seeing our favorite rap act get together with a classic rock act like Aerosmith. For those of us who liked both genres, it was very cool back then. This was way before Diddy his craptacular collaboration with Page.

The Beegees. OK I am going to say it. I actually prefer their disco stuff. I think Saturday Night Fever tracks were their best ever and while they endured temporary ridicule over it, it is the legacy that helped them sold concerts in recent years.

I tried listening to some KISS songs again since some people I know were having a similar conversation. I still don't get it. Other than two or three hit songs, I find their songs boring. I like New York Groove, but that is more of an Ace song and because it reminds me of the early 70s glam rock scene which I love.

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 08-20-2009 09:34 AM

quote: Pravin Ratnam
While I dont agree with Chad that Tyler's rap sucked on the original, I do agree that Aerosmith was pretty much finished in the mid 80s.

I disagree with that. "Get a Grip" was a hugely popular album and it was 1993 I think. Then "Nine Lives" was actually a better album (but less successful) and that was 1996 or 1997. Thier popularity peaked with "I Don't Want to Miss a Thing" on the Armageddon soundtrack. I'd say thier new stuff started to decline big time in the late 90's/early 2000's.

I went to several shows on the Just Push Play tour and the Aerosmith/Kiss tour and the live show was better than many younger bands. If I still have the energy of Steven Tyler when I'm in my late 50's (as he was when I last saw them) I'll be happy. And if in my mid 50's I'm in as good a shape as Joe Perry (performing shirtless and looking cut) I'll also be really happy.

BTW, the Aero/Kiss show was great. You got the spectacle of Kiss followed by the more musically talented Aerosmith.

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Pravin Ratnam
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 844
From: Atlanta, GA,USA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 08-20-2009 09:49 AM

Lyle, read the rest of what I wrote. When I said "finished by the mid 80s", I didn't mean forever. Permanent Vacation and Walk this Way heralded their comeback,at least according to my recollection.

While i hate rock ballads, I didn't mind their ballads during the whole Alicia Silverstone video phase, but I despise I Dont Wanna Miss A Thing. It ranks right up there with Backstreet Boys type crap. It reminds of how Def Leppard went from cool rock band to annoying aging rocker ballad group.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-20-2009 02:03 PM

quote: Pravin Ratnam
I like New York Groove, but that is more of an Ace song

Not "more of;" it IS an Ace Frehley song, from his self-titled solo album.

I have to disagree with Geena on her dismissal of most of the 1970s music. Just as many great songs came out of that era as the '60s. The whole "singer songwriter" genre produced some genuinely great songs. (Carole King, Jackson Browne, Joni Mitchell, the list goes on.) And "pop-rock" music really came of age in the '70s too, until disco and punk crowded it to the side.

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