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This topic comprises 9 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
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Author
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Topic: Michael Jackson has passed away
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Mark Ogden
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 943
From: Little Falls, N.J.
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 07-08-2009 09:39 AM
quote: Joe Redifer
No MJ news is forced upon you
Oh, no? I flipped on the news last night because I wanted to hear of Obama's trip to Russia. Guess what I had to sit thru first and for how long. What am I supposed to do, hide in the john and have someone call me when what I want to see comes up?
quote: Joe Redifer
Can you really not understand why it gets so much coverage?
No, I really, really do understand why it gets this coverage. And it’s horseshit for the simple reason that the coverage of Jackson's death is far out of proportion to who and what he was and what he left us, apart from some decent albums and an interesting dance move. He was a talented person and an expert on self-promotion, for sure. But up until the day he died, he was, for a lot of the world, "Wacko Jacko", an emotionally stunted freak of plastic surgery who had mismanaged his way into a financial abyss, and very likely an unpardoned felon on top of that. Undeniably talented, yes, and a born showman, but which aspect of his celebrity makes him worthy of this “huge” amount of attention, the talent or the freak show? A lot of people are very talented and don't get this hoopla on their deaths.
Look at it this way: one of the biggest selling recording artists in recent history is Mariah Carey, who is also very talented but who lives a life of comparative restraint. God forbid she drops dead, but if she does, will she get the wall-to-wall coverage? You seem to be suggesting that because he “fucked up his life” to the extent that he did, that his death deserves this kind of fawning media attention. It doesn’t. Sorry to be so harsh, but truth be told we're pulling out the stops to celebrate a lunatic, a person who the world rolled its eyes at as recently as two weeks ago but who also was a master at manipulating the media.
quote: Joe Redifer
He's way more popular than Elvis ever was or could have been
That’s hardly true. You’re what, 34 or 35? You weren’t alive for Elvis. I was very young back then, but I remember the insanity that Presley generated, and while the country didn’t have the celebrity media backbone that it has today, it was still pretty pervasive and truly a mania. Hell, the FBI actually once considered him a national security threat. Nothing Michael Jackson has ever done will ever result in the kind of cultural impact that Elvis had. For a long time, people who couldn’t deal with his death kept the whole “Elvis sightings” thing going, and to this day people STILL visit Graceland. He was enormously popular, but he’s gone 30+ years now, and memories fade and the perspective is lost. But while Michael Jackson sold records, Elvis Presley, for better or worse, changed things. Few performers can claim that.
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Chris Slycord
Film God
Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007
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posted 07-08-2009 10:10 AM
quote: Mark Ogden
Oh, no? I flipped on the news last night because I wanted to hear of Obama's trip to Russia. Guess what I had to sit thru first and for how long. What am I supposed to do, hide in the john and have someone call me when what I want to see comes up?
There's this magic thing called the internet. You want to hear about of Obama's trip and not have anything else told to you? Google it or go to a news website and if you really need to have someone speak to you about it instead of reading, then do a search for a video.
quote: Mark Ogden
one of the biggest selling recording artists in recent history is Mariah Carey, who is also very talented but who lives a life of comparative restraint. God forbid she drops dead, but if she does, will she get the wall-to-wall coverage?
Is this the same Mariah Carey that was covered in media for months for publicly having a complete mental breakdown? If she died she'd have quite a bit of coverage. Perhaps not quite as much as him.
quote: Mark Ogden
But while Michael Jackson sold records, Elvis Presley, for better or worse, changed things. Few performers can claim that.
And MJ did too. Just because you only see his records sold doesn't mean that it's all he did. He changed things, influencing how people do music videos (his arguably being mini-films/movies); brought back a bigger influence of dance into performing; crossed over into areas of pop, hard rock, R&B; and obviously he was the most popular black artist by far at the time.
I never was a huge MJ fan, but I don't see how anyone can deny his influence like you have. Just because Elvis had an influence doens't mean MJ didn't.
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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 07-08-2009 10:27 AM
quote: Mark Ogden
But while Michael Jackson sold records, Elvis Presley, for better or worse, changed things. Few performers can claim that.
Jackson changed things. Big time. While there are similarities (Elvis being shown below the waist on Sullivan, Jackson's crotch grab) anybody who stops to compare sees that there is no comparison at all.
Elvis didn't write shit, while Jackson wrote lyrics and composed. Sure, that's using the standard Dylan influenced on music, but it still counts. It must be considered easier to simply perform the work of someone else versus both creating and performing. Elvis was simply a great performer.
Jackson was more known worldwide. Maybe that's an effect of media and technology, but a fact is a fact. He had billions of fans. Literally billions.
Any fat dude with a decent voice can put on fake sideburns and do a solid Elvis impersonation. It's because he's easy to impersonate - and there are some pretty darn good ones out there. His vocal range was not spectacular and his moves were not complex - just racy for the time. Andy Kaufman was the "original" Elvis impersonator and he actually did a good job. I have never seen a good Michael Jackson impersonation. It's because few humans have the ability to do that stuff physically and those that do likely can't match his voice.
quote: Mark Ogden
You’re what, 34 or 35? You weren’t alive for Elvis.
The argument that Joe is too young to know and appreciate Elvis can be flipped to say you're too old to know and appreciate Jackson. Many similarities: They both were a disgrace at the end of their lives. They both were, in kindness, eccentric. They both had a tremendous impact on the entertainment world. They both had maniacal fans - the fact remains, however, that Michael Jackson had more of them.
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Mark Ogden
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 943
From: Little Falls, N.J.
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 07-08-2009 11:12 AM
quote: Chad Souder
but a fact is a fact. He had billions of fans. Literally billions.
A fact is a fact, except when it is hyperbole. You are saying "literally billions", meaning what, two or three? The current population of the planet is just south of seven billion. So roughly one-third of the world's population liked Jackson enough to qualify as "fans"? I don't think so, but you are welcome to prove me wrong.
quote: Chad Souder
you're too old to know and appreciate Jackson.
Oh please. You forget how long he has been around. I used to play Jackson Five records on my college radio station, and after he went solo, I bought many of his albums. I remember getting shit-faced drunk one night listening to "She's Out Of My Life" when . . . well you can imagine. I appreciated his talent quite a bit, and I stated as much above when I called him "undeniably talanted and a born showman". But the fact remains that in terms of cultural evolution, only the Beatles have come close to Presley in impact. I think sometimes that's why Jackson was so hot to buy their catalog. He couldn't touch them, but he could own them. Just a theory, but still.
quote: Chad Souder
I have never seen a good Michael Jackson impersonation
Actually, Madonna had one on stage with her just the other night. Nailed the moondance, dead nuts.
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David Stambaugh
Film God
Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 07-08-2009 01:40 PM
The mainstream media outlets (in the US: NBC, CNN, etc) follow the numbers. They know virtually instantly whether the MJ coverage is attracting viewers, or repelling them. Clearly the numbers supported the coverage. I can't fault the media for giving people what they seem to want, especially when there are still alternatives as mentioned previously. Even my elderly mother, who barely knew who MJ was, willingly watched the memorial service coverage on CNN and commented favorably on it.
One thing that strikes me about the MJ saga is he seemed like possibly the whitest black man we've ever encountered as a public figure. By that I don't mean his ever-lightening skin (whatever was causing that). I mean he didn't seem race-conscious. He was neither black nor white in that sense (hey, he even wrote a song related to that). Some black entertainers are now talking about MJ as if he belonged to black people exclusively and was only on loan to the rest of us. That is nonsense and hypocritical. MJ may have had an issue with race as it affected him personally, but only in his own mind, as evidenced by physical changes he inflicted on himself, for better or worse.
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