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Topic: Michael Jackson has passed away

John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 07-08-2009 04:55 PM

Damn! I never noticed that before! [Eek!]

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 07-08-2009 05:10 PM

That's hilarious, John! Thanks for the laff... [beer]

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 07-08-2009 05:11 PM

Whoah! You're freaking me out Phil! [Wink]

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 07-08-2009 05:43 PM

I'm freaking ***YOU*** out!?!?!? Oh PUHLEEZE! Cut me some slack! [Razz]

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 07-08-2009 05:52 PM

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 07-08-2009 06:53 PM

quote: Joe Redifer
That's Jamie Foxx, natural born racist.

Right! That's who I was thinking of.

I didn't say it very well but what I meant was MJ's public personna was such that I never consciously thought of him as a *black* entertainer, at least not unless someone around MJ, or speaking about MJ, brought it up. He was more universal and color wasn't overtly a part of his act or his appeal. However he clearly must have had other internalized "issues" with being black.

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Chris Hipp
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1462
From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas)
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 07-08-2009 07:13 PM

They like to call him black, a black man even. But everyone knows him as a white woman, so no wonder he is getting so much attention. If he were black no one would care.

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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 07-08-2009 09:32 PM

quote: Mark Ogden
But the fact remains that in terms of cultural evolution, only the Beatles have come close to Presley in impact.

You've got that backwards. Presley maybe came close to the Beatles. Maybe. The Beatles started the British invasion and are credited (accused?) of doing more to promote drug use, whether intended or not, than any other band in history. The British invasion crushed what the United States had going at the time and changed the direction music was headed and the culture of those listening. While The Beatles were in awe of Elvis, it was their success that was pushing him off to the side. The Beatles themselves evolved musically with every album, while Elvis stayed generally the same throughout. I think it's easier to evolve when you actually write your own songs. Again, Elvis had a rabid fanbase that few ever achieve. The thing is, The Beatles and MJ are a couple of those few.

Now if you really want to get to the champion of influence then look no farther than Bob Dylan. He beats them all.

quote: Mark Ogden
You are saying "literally billions", meaning what, two or three? The current population of the planet is just south of seven billion. So roughly one-third of the world's population liked Jackson enough to qualify as "fans"? I don't think so, but you are welcome to prove me wrong.

You're assuming I meant at any given time. Take the fans from the start of Jackson's career (1964) to the death of his career (sometime in the mid or late 90s), add a few for the past 10+ years that would have discovered him after the fact, and you've got 45 or so years worth that easily bring you in the billions. Just his HIStory tour in the mid nineties took MJ to 35 countries on 5 continents. Elvis just doesn't have as many any way you look at it. He never had thousands upon thousands screaming for him in Czech Republic, South Africa, Japan, etc. etc...

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 07-08-2009 10:32 PM

I think what you are trying to say, David, is that although Michael Jackson was black (or an "African American" as the politically correct enjoy saying), he wasn't "in your face" about it like it seems most black people are. Most rappers and many black entertainers use the word "nigger" all over the place, flaunting their blackness, if you will. MJ didn't do that. He didn't really care about race. However there are exceptions to everything as he once did call the boss of Sony racist (the Matola guy or whatever his name is) against black artists, even though the guy was married to a half & half like Mariah Carrey.

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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 07-09-2009 01:29 AM

And I think it is specifically that lack of attention to race of which you speak, Joe, that made him appeal to such a wide audience. His entertainment wasn't focused toward people who shared a similar background and thus was not divisive. It was pure theater, open to anyone. Then some idiot like Jamie Foxx has to come along and spout off about him belonging to them, making it divisive when it had never been. Disappointing.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-09-2009 02:15 AM

Michael Jackson's solo career would have been about a fourth of the size it was if not for one guy:

Quincy Jones.

It was him, more than Michael, who was responsible for the overall sound of the music that was refined on the "big 3" MJ albums.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 07-09-2009 02:50 AM

Dunno 'bout that. Quincy didn't want MJ to include Billie Jean on Thriller. And when Michael insisted on including it QJ wanted the instrumental intro cut short. MJ got his way and the song remains as is. Probably one of my favorite MJ songs, to be sure.

I used to think the same think about Jackson and Jones until I did a bit more research.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 07-09-2009 09:31 AM

quote: Joe Redifer
MJ didn't do that. He didn't really care about race. However there are exceptions

Like the song "They Don't Really Care About Us" focusing a bunch on racism (and in particular adding in a useless anti-Jew slur).

quote:
Jew me, sue me
Everybody do me
Kick me, kike me
Don't you black or white me

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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 07-09-2009 10:55 AM

It wasn't useless or offensive except when taken out of context like you have. If read in the context of the entire song, there is nothing antisemitic about those words. Harsh words sometimes are needed to make the point. Watching the videos can help put it in context as well. Although Spike Lee shot the videos and he is racist, so maybe...

quote: Mike Blakesley
Michael Jackson's solo career would have been about a fourth of the size it was if not for one guy:

Quincy Jones.

You could say the same about Colonel Tom Parker, Sid Bernstein, Don King, etc., etc., etc...

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 07-09-2009 11:03 AM

I have listened to the song and read the lyrics and I still conclude that the term isn't needed. I'm not saying he meant it to be antisemetic, but even used the way he did the term is offensive to a lot of people. And he could've gotten the same point across without the word. It'd be no different than if a white guy sang a song with a certain N-word in it and told people "Come on. I'm just using it as a harsh word." People would be offended.

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