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Topic: Movie-Theater Chains Take On IMAX

Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 01-08-2014 05:14 PM

quote: Scott Jentsch
I also don't agree with their contention that "nobody is creating 4K content currently" -- what should we call every movie made with film cameras and without going to a 2K intermediate during processing? The 4K bandwagon has arrived and it's on parade. No wonder the guy says he doesn't sleep much at night...

Instead of pushing superior OLED screens, flat panel producers decided that they could get more out of their investment in TFT technology by just upping the resolution. Although 4K TFT screens are still prohibitively expensive for most applications, the prices will come down.

Studios are just waiting to resell us our inventory yet again in a newer, better format: Newly scanned prints, digital restorations and up-conversions... Also, 4K will surely become the gold standard for mainstream releases within the foreseeable future. So 4K is definitely getting very relevant.

quote: Bobby Henderson
It will probably still involve only two enclosures mounted in the rear corners of the room.

Who doesn't want a set of laser aligned shark tanks in the rear corner of his room?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 01-09-2014 12:25 AM

So... since a single iPad has more resolution than IMAX, why doesn't IMAX just build a video wall out of iPads? They could all be plugged in behind the screen. It would probably draw even less power than the projectors and the sound (coming from the iPad speakers) would be about 1000% better than the regular IMAX sound. No joke, not kidding. There would be no jaggies in the image at all and it would blow away the resolution of IMAX film as well. Maybe not in visual dynamic range but it'd be close.

Cheaper AND better. Hopefully IMAX soon becomes iMAX.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 01-09-2014 01:12 AM

I'm rooting for IMAX to become XAMIMAX. A palindrome. Just like Bob. That would make it better. Yes.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 01-09-2014 08:09 AM

quote: Joe Redifer
So... since a single iPad has more resolution than IMAX, why doesn't IMAX just build a video wall out of iPads? They could all be plugged in behind the screen. It would probably draw even less power than the projectors and the sound (coming from the iPad speakers) would be about 1000% better than the regular IMAX sound. No joke, not kidding. There would be no jaggies in the image at all and it would blow away the resolution of IMAX film as well. Maybe not in visual dynamic range but it'd be close.

At least their "flat" screens would be more like their dome screens, you know, with those ugly seams were the aluminum sheets meet. [Wink]

But this reminds me of the LG stand on ISE (Amsterdam) last year, they had a HUGE video wall, built with ordinary flat panel TVs. They were showcasing some 3D content which was supposed to be in front of those panels, using very high resolution content. The problem was though, that the bevels between the screens totally destroyed the 3D effect. It just looked stupid, why didn't anybody think about this kind of obvious shit?

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 01-09-2014 11:21 AM

quote:
quote: Scott Jentsch "IMAX is struggling for its very life. "

How did you jump to this conclusion? IMAX has had record growth, sales and profits for the last few years. The studio content and digital conversion has allowed IMAX to survive. There are no purpose built 15/70 theatres built-outs anymore and some of the existing theatres that are running 15/70 are closing up shop. There is no future for 15/70.

Perhaps "struggling" might not be the perfect choice of wording, but I don't think it's far off the mark.

Think about it from a fresh perspective. Imagine having to go on Shark Tank with the idea of getting investment in a company called "IMAX".

Your primary product is offered in movie theaters, many with direct competition to your primary product.

The thing you hang your hat on is the size of the screen, but those other screens are as big or bigger.

You have big sound, they have big sound and potentially bigger. Dolby Atmos and Auro 11.1 sweeten the pot, and you have no answer to them.

You have a brand name that has been around for many years with lots of marketing to support it. They have big brand names (Regal, AMC, Cinemark, etc.) with long histories as well, and they can market their PLF in every single screen they have in each location, as well as direct E-Mail campaigns, etc.

You have nothing proprietary at this time that your competitors cannot offer. The movies are the same (aside from the very few that do the aspect-ratio dance), the projection and sound equipment can be matched or exceeded by your competitors.

Technology-wise, you risk falling behind those competitors, and have a very short window of opportunity before you are overtaken completely. You need hundreds of millions of dollars to finish development on the new projectors and then replace your existing equipment, all in 9-18 months.

Would the sharks bite at your offer, or would they be out?

If that window is missed, or if the chains become even more aggressive in their PLF efforts, you face a dwindling business in a finite market. There is the international market, sure, but that's a David Hasselhof move with limited potential.

If I were opening a new theater and had the choice of an IMAX screen or rolling my own PLF, IMAX would have to make a very compelling case as to why they would be the best route to go. Unless they're fronting an incredible amount of the build-out and equipment costs, I don't see where going the IMAX route and giving them a split of the revenue ad infinitum makes sense.

That's why I said "struggling" and perhaps why the guy isn't sleeping at night.

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Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 01-09-2014 12:07 PM

All great points Scott!

IMAX is still an iconic brand for its past, but the mystique of the brand often lingers on for some years after the reality of their contribution, as in the example of THX.

IMAX reputation was earned because it produced its own alternative content; often awesome material.

IMO, they are treading water and playing for time until they have something new with which to dazzle us.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 01-09-2014 12:59 PM

Fundamentally, IMAX needs to be able to do something theater chains can't replicate (or even surpass) with their own house brand premium screens. They were able to do that with film. They're not able to do that with digital technology.

Laser projection technology looked like it might be a big trump card for IMAX, but with several other companies working on their own laser-based designs IMAX may end up not having any advantage there at all. IMAX missed the boat in terms of next generation "immersive" sound formats.

The term "4K" isn't going to help IMAX or other theater operators very much since it is moving into the home theater space. At Winter CES Visio announced a 50" 4K TV for under $1000. A Samsung executive got the rumor mill buzzing about a new breed of Blu-ray players able to play 4K content on quad layer discs coming perhaps as early as the end of 2014. If anything, the growth of 4K in home theater will force many 2K equipped commercial theaters to upgrade their equipment.

In the end, IMAX can only play around with the terms of its revenue sharing agreements with movie theater chains. They have to continue making their deals with theaters look very attractive. There is a danger theater chains like AMC or Regal could start playing hardball with IMAX and demand better terms to improve their own profit margins. Or the chains could do what they did with THX, getting rid of IMAX completely if they felt it had become irrelevant.

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Jim Henk
Master Film Handler

Posts: 364
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 01-09-2014 01:04 PM

People on both sides of this discussion have been making good points, but please, I hope that's the last time we ever use "Shark Tank" to make a point. Business decisions with all the long term attention span of a canary. Henry Ford would never have survived "Shark Tank".

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-09-2014 01:29 PM

quote: Bobby Henderson
The term "4K" isn't going to help IMAX or other theater operators very much since it is moving into the home theater space.

True. I wish the movie business would embrace and promote the most important thing that differentiates us from the living room: "SIZE." The size of everything, not just the picture but the sound as well. The impact just is not there at home -- well it can be, sort of, if you have a really big screen in a really good home theater setup, but 99% of people don't have that and never will. Even the smallest theater screen is FAR bigger than the biggest home TV screens, and if a good sound system is added, a movie in a theater will have a greater emotional impact than a TV setup ever would.

This is what the industry needs to promote.....not an alphabet soup of letters and snazzy names that mean nothing to most people.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 01-09-2014 02:11 PM

Commercial theaters have to deliver the goods on showmanship. Some theaters are good at doing this. Too many others make the experience no more remarkable than a visit to a fast food restaurant.

Home theater can be only so good, but the quality bar has been rising higher and higher. It's also amazing how big/good a TV one can buy for $1000 or $2000. 15-20 years ago you couldn't buy a halfway decent big screen 4:3 SDTV for that kind of money. This year's Winter CES show in Las Vegas has showcased a variety of new 4K TV sets (and an 8K set from Sharp). Some of the 4K TVs had OLED-based curved screens. Sizes are growing too. Several of the 4K models were over 6' diagonally. One hit the 10' mark. I don't think I could put one of those TV sets on my living room wall without the speaker towers getting in the way.

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 01-09-2014 02:53 PM

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Instead of pushing superior OLED screens, flat panel producers decided that they could get more out of their investment in TFT technology by just upping the resolution. Although 4K TFT screens are still prohibitively expensive for most applications, the prices will come down.

Large OLED screens still have a lot of manufacturing/yield issues to overcome. That's why the focus is on trying to sell useless 4k TFT screens for higher profit margins since nobody was willing to pay extra for 3D.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 01-09-2014 03:08 PM

Apparently manufacturers have overcome some of those hurdles with OLED. The new OLED-based 4K TV sets coming from Samsung, LG, etc. aren't going to be cheap at all. But prices will come down as the scale of OLED manufacturing grows and matures.

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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012

posted 01-09-2014 03:34 PM

quote: Scott Jentsch
Perhaps "struggling" might not be the perfect choice of wording, but I don't think it's far off the mark.

Do you not think that IMAX recognizes that the PLF expansion is a concern to IMAX?

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-09-2014 04:18 PM

Maybe "struggling" is too strong a word, but they'd be crazy not to be worried or at the least, "very concerned." Just give it a thought....if you were CEO of a cinema chain, and it was going to cost you $100,000 a year (I'm just guessing here, it could be more or less) in licensing fees to put the name "Imax" on your building, but you could take that money and buy the exact same or better equipment, and the only catch was you would have to develop your own "XD" type logo to put on it....that would be a no brainer. With all these other chains coming up with their own PLF "concepts" it's probably a foregone conclusion that Imax's piece of the overall pie will get smaller in the future. They will probably be the THX of the 2010s before it's all over.

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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012

posted 01-10-2014 08:49 PM

If Dolby is going to have any chance at becoming relevant again, they are going to have to come up with some better marketing materials for theatre owners that this POS. [puke]

Those who were watching Lone Survivor today got a treat, apparently they got to hear the movie in Dolby Atmos. There was a trailer for Dolby Atmos before the feature. Fantastic quality control [Frown]

As a chain that has a number of PLF screens, Cineplex has starting market against IMAX head-on. Cineplex has debuted a new slogan of "Don't just see the movie, feel it" Well how freaking original is that?

I guess AVX sucks because the woman in the pic is watching the movie by herself. Someone needs to tell Cineplex that they need to fill the other seats up to make the advertisement look good. It looks like an in-house marketing team put this ad together.

Anyways, here is an IMAX retrofit pic taking from the same complex.

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