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Topic: Movie-Theater Chains Take On IMAX

Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-10-2014 11:50 PM

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
the woman in the pic is watching the movie by herself. Someone needs to tell Cineplex that they need to fill the other seats up to make the advertisement look good. It looks like an in-house marketing team put this ad together.

Without being able to see the whole spot, it's pointless to even speculate about it. There is probably a very good reason she's by herself.

As for that bottom picture, wow that looks ... well, like a movie screen stuffed into a shoebox. How many seats in that house? How big is the screen?

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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012

posted 01-11-2014 12:21 AM

How many seats do you think it seats? I would be interested in knowing how many you think it seats.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 01-11-2014 01:16 AM

I suspect Tom Petrov has been boozing it up.
[Razz]

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
If Dolby is going to have any chance at becoming relevant again, they are going to have to come up with some better marketing materials for theatre owners that this POS.

Actually that looks like some theater chain in house marketing departement shit, not something from Dolby.

I'll break it down into some specifics. First of all when the hell was the color orange ever, I mean ever, a part of Dolby's marketing scheme? They're big on using red, black & silver/grey on a bunch of their cinema processors. But just about all their marketing stuff as of late has been shades of black and blue.

Next: the type on that oval thing is all wrong. The "Dolby Atmos" part looks correct, but hell you can grab an .SVG of that from Wikipedia. The dead giveaway is the "Hear It In" part set in Futura and the "Sound Revolutionized" thing set in Eurostile. Wrong. If this piece of advertising work had really come directly from Dolby all of the type would have been set in Morgan Sans. Whoever put together that oval ad obviously didn't have that particular type family on hand (and probably didn't want to pay $300+ to buy it either).

Terry, if you're going to criticize advertising materials at least know what you're talking about before you start laying blame on anyone.

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
Those who were watching Lone Survivor today got a treat, apparently they got to hear the movie in Dolby Atmos. There was a trailer for Dolby Atmos before the feature. Fantastic quality control

Maybe you need to take that up with the dipshit theater manager who can't get his trailers straight instead of stupidly blaming that on Dolby. But you probably already know this, troll.

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
I guess AVX sucks because the woman in the pic is watching the movie by herself.

Another loaded, highly spun comment. Empty auditoriums are caused by other more important factors than some contest between premium priced auditorium concepts. Those factors include: the movie is shitty, the movie has been in the theater too long or the person visiting the auditorium went there at some odd-ball hour, which might make perfect sense for a troll.

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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012

posted 01-11-2014 01:29 AM

Bobby, no need to get all worked up, its just Dolby [Wink]

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 01-11-2014 01:34 AM

I'm not worked up at all. I'm just calling you on your bullshit.

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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012

posted 01-11-2014 01:45 AM

Bobby, you are worked up. You even called me someone who I am not. Would you like me to start calling you Bobbie? At least I have the respect to call you by your fucking name. Then you call me a troll, would you like me to make fun of you?

As for Dolby, they share some blame for theatre owners giving out the wrong messages. IMAX has a big one up on Dolby in that they monitor the theatres "real time" apparentl, I don't know how much truth there is in that but I have told you before, that is for you to decide. I have yet to see a theatre in my area use IMAX in the incorrect way.

Dolby better get their act together and perhaps start educating their installs in what the difference is between 7.1 and Atmos, the average person likely can't tell the difference . This is why I firmly predict that Dolby Ass-mos will be just like 7.1 in a few years and that is irrelevant.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 01-11-2014 02:06 AM

I'm relaxed. I believe it is you who are worked up and angry at this late hour of the night. Which one of us resorted to sending some nasty hate e-mails to the other? That would be you. I think getting worked up is more your style than mine.

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
As for Dolby, they share some blame for theatre owners giving out the wrong messages.

No they don't. Honestly, it takes a pretty dense movie theater manager or whoever it is putting together the playlist not to know better when he should or should not run a Dolby Atmos trailer. This is no different than someone running a 35mm Dolby Digital trailer on a 35mm movie with only a SDDS digital track.

Since Dolby's personnel cannot be there to babysit the monkey children working in the theaters you visit I just don't see how it is Dolby's fault at all. Dolby's employees have no control over what theater employees throw into a d-cinema playlist. The notion that you don't understand this really puts your level of intelligence into question.

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
I have yet to see a theatre in my area use IMAX in the incorrect way.

Correct way? No curtains or masking on the screen and a basketball arena approach to surround sound. And for a really high price. I'll at least give them a couple points for being consistent about it.

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
Dolby better get their act together and perhaps start educating their installs in what the difference is between 7.1 and Atmos, the average person likely can't tell the difference . This is why I firmly predict that Dolby Ass-mos will be just like 7.1 in a few years and that is irrelevant.

Is that a backward way in trying to defend IMAX' old 5.0/5.1 approach to sound in a high priced auditorium?

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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012

posted 01-11-2014 02:13 AM

Bobby, I'm not defending the IMAX layout at all, dig into the Gravity thread, I even said that the Ass-mos presentation was better. The average person is not going to be able to tell that there is that much of a difference.

Where I have serious concerns is in the marketing department. I think it sucks, the trailers are not very good. Dolby is a little late to the game. The Dolby 7.1 flop kind of shows that the general audience does not care. I do like how they named Dolby Atmos something other than XX.1 or surround, I will give them credit for that.

Dolby could prevent their trailers from running on the wrong movie with KDM locks. Could they not?

IMAX suuround sound layout and lack of masking has been like that since the 70's, did you not know that?

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 01-11-2014 02:45 AM

I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

Dolby has some huge cardboard marketing displays available. They show a cinema seat standing in the middle of some nature scene.

And what's so wrong with the Atmos Amaze and Unfold trailers? They both show off a great deal of what the sound system is capable off. They also have this small infomercial, that explains the basics of their system.

I don't remember SRD or DTS marketing material to be better than this. Also, those Dolby Atmos trailers beat any of those IMAX trailers on pure impact. Both this stupid IDF-only laser-aligned-bla-calibration and the countdown trailer that's also available in 15/70. Especially the Atmos Unfold trailer packs some real punch.

Dolby Atmos might not be as prominently on the marquee, but let's stop comparing apples to oranges, Dolby Atmos is just a SOUND SYSTEM, IMAX is a fully fledged exhibition system. Dolby sells cinema equipment, IMAX sells a concept...

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 01-11-2014 04:21 AM

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
IMAX suuround sound layout and lack of masking has been like that since the 70's, did you not know that?

Does it matter if he knew it or not? Because his statement that defending a 5.0/5.1 doesn't work in a time when 7.1 and higher are becoming commonplace is a fair assessment, regardless of whether that layout has been in place since the 70s or not.

Also, wasn't it really only in late-2002 that they started to have a need for a masking, when they started doing the DMR releases that didn't use the whole screen? I've yet to see an IMAX install where the screen is surrounded by walls that are anything other than black, which provides some masking for the movies that fill the whole screen (which before then, would've been all of them).

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-11-2014 09:11 AM

quote: Terry Lynn-Petrov
How many seats do you think it seats? I would be interested in knowing how many you think it seats.

That's a stupid question. I haven't got a clue how many it seats because (a) you can't tell from the picture how wide it is, and (b) there could be rows behind the camera. That's why I asked you, jerk.

As for Bobby calling you a "troll," well he's just calling 'em as he sees 'em. If you had any class you would respect his knowledge of signage, branding, marketing and advertising, since he's our resident expert on that subject.

quote: Terry Lynn-Petrov
IMAX suuround sound layout and lack of masking has been like that since the 70's, did you not know that?

Really? Wow, they're even further behind the curve than I thought.

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
Dolby could prevent their trailers from running on the wrong movie with KDM locks. Could they not?

Well they COULD, but they wouldn't. That's not their job. I can tell you right now that for Dolby to get into the whole business of sending out KDMs so that a given server can only play a given clip if an Atmos movie is playing on that server...well it would be a bookkeeping nightmare, expensive, and a pain in the ass for all involved. It's up to the theater management (and rightly so) to make sure they play the right sound clip with their own system. We could play the Sony 7.1 clips here if we wanted to, but since we don't have that system we don't play those clips.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 01-11-2014 09:51 AM

quote: Bobby Henderson
First of all when the hell was the color orange ever, I mean ever, a part of Dolby's marketing scheme? They're big on using red, black & silver/grey on a bunch of their cinema processors.

Ummmm Well Mr. Ray Dolby himself liked the color orange. In fact, he picked the color for the CP100...care to guess what it was? Orange. Check out the CP50 next time you see it...the racing stripe across its face...ORANGE. CP50 remotes, ORANGE.

The very first "Cinema Product" from Dolby...the 364 and E2...Orange stripe...The brochure (available here in the warehouse) is orange on its front page.

The CP200 started the RED color for cinema products. In fact, the CP200 had two different colors of red. The first batch had a darker red (almost blood red) and the grey was a darker shade of red than later units.

Now Sam will know which processor better than I...though I think it was the CP650 where the initial color for the stripe across the top was to be Orange...but was later changed to Red. I believe the story goes that Ray was the reason it started out as orange and when the prototype came back something thought it was a mistake and switched it to red.

As for surround 7.1 being a flop...it sure seems to be used on quite a few movies and it is available in quite a few theatres. While one could call it a flop in the sense that Dolby can't have any real ownership of it since one need not have Dolby brand equipment to play it back properly however, their name is associated with the format in the theatrical environment. You don't see "USL-7.1" for instance...but Dolby Surround 7.1 is common. It is like when Kraft used to boast about how much milk was in their cheese. While everyone else making cheese had the same amount of milk...one could no longer market that because it would still refer back to Kraft. The same holds for Surround 7.1...at least in a theatrical sense.

Surround 7.1 has pretty much become our standard for all new-builds...it is just a no-brainer as it doesn't really cost any more and affords one the ability to tune the side and rear surrounds separately.

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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012

posted 01-11-2014 10:27 AM

quote: Mike Blakesley
That's a stupid question. I haven't got a clue how many it seats because (a) you can't tell from the picture how wide it is, and (b) there could be rows behind the camera. That's why I asked you, jerk.

I was trying to have normal discussion with you and then you start saying stupid shit and now you are starting to act like a complete jack-ass. Assume that the pictures were taking from the same vantage point you idiot.

The theatre in question has 424 seats pre-IMAX conversion. The AVX auditorium with the on-screen advertisement has 530 seats. Both pics were taken from the back row right at the entrance opening. The size of the screen is around 50 feet wide.

quote: Mike Blakesley
As for Bobby calling you a "troll," well he's just calling 'em as he sees 'em. If you had any class you would respect his knowledge of signage, branding, marketing and advertising, since he's our resident expert on that subject.

I have very little respect for Bobby's opinion. He is way too focused on whether or not something has 4K resolution and the panning of the surrounds in Dolby means very little to the average person. Bobby can't get past the looking at IMAX without 15/70 in question.

I also have very little respect for you. I don't think you understand how competitive and difficult the exhibition market is. You are probably the only game in town and when you have real competition, perhaps you should speak up.

quote: Mike Blakesley
Well they COULD, but they wouldn't. That's not their job. I can tell you right now that for Dolby to get into the whole business of sending out KDMs so that a given server can only play a given clip if an Atmos movie is playing on that server...well it would be a bookkeeping nightmare, expensive, and a pain in the ass for all involved.

Don't be an idiot Mike, if Dolby really cared about their branding of Atmos and wanted to ensure that everyone in fact gets a true Dolby Atmos experience, they could easily make sure the KDM's keys are sent out. If IMAX can protect their brand by locking out others, then Dolby can do it as well. There are not that many Dolby Atmos theatres around and at least this way it ensures proper playback and advertising.

quote: Marcel Birgelen
And what's so wrong with the Atmos Amaze and Unfold trailers? They both show off a great deal of what the sound system is capable off. They also have this small infomercial, that explains the basics of their system.

I don't remember SRD or DTS marketing material to be better than this. Also, those Dolby Atmos trailers beat any of those IMAX trailers on pure impact. Both this stupid IDF-only laser-aligned-bla-calibration and the countdown trailer that's also available in 15/70. Especially the Atmos Unfold trailer packs some real punch.

The real problem I have with the current Dolby ads is that it is playing to the same 90's type crowd and it gets added in after all of the other advertising of what the particular theatre has to offer. The Dolby Atmos trailers are nothing special.

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Especially the Atmos Unfold trailer packs some real punch.

It is okay at best.

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Dolby Atmos might not be as prominently on the marquee, but let's stop comparing apples to oranges, Dolby Atmos is just a SOUND SYSTEM, IMAX is a fully fledged exhibition system. Dolby sells cinema equipment, IMAX sells a concept...

Fair enough, but that won't stop me from saying their current advertising for Atmos sucks.

I am pretty certain that the orange Atmos sign is legit.

quote: Steve Guttag
As for surround 7.1 being a flop...it sure seems to be used on quite a few movies and it is available in quite a few theatres. While one could call it a flop in the sense that Dolby can't have any real ownership of it since one need not have Dolby brand equipment to play it back properly however, their name is associated with the format in the theatrical environment.

I am calling it a flop. It might be around but the average customer does not care.

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Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 01-11-2014 11:12 AM

I referred to "Hear it In Atmos" a few days back and this sign is what I was talking about. I don't care for this approach any more than I did when THX used the "See it in THX" line. It seems lazy and not a credit to the high concept Dolby ads of the past.

As to colors,, the original Orange came from the pro audio units such as the M16 and 360's and even publications. The CP100 was an M16 NR frame reworked into the first cinema processor. The E2/364 and CP50 were orange as well.

I'm not sure where "Dolby Red" came from except these were all decisions Ray Dolby had to approve as style issues and there was a darker red and grey on the first US built CP200's and then a lighter less saturated version on UK built units.

This had to do with the difference between paint colors and ink colors and the way the two offices dealt with them.

I can't say I care for the color scheme on the 850 as it breaks a tradition for no apparent reason and makes one wonder whether Dolby values its past, but that's just me.

IMHO, it's time to close this thread. You have three people swearing, insulting, and calling each other idiots. No further good can come from this thread.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 01-11-2014 11:12 AM

You say a lot of things Terry.

Sam...really? This is like watching a train wreck in progress...abhorrent and yet compulsive to see where the "players" will turn next.

Plus, even Brad weighed in on the thread and despite the bickering/name calling he only spoke up about the idea of adding additional versions of things!

And then the ability to catch Bobby on a marketing/publication mistake? How often does one get to do that? Agreed it isn't like finding out that he missed on a Font or typesetting issue but I'll take what I can!

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