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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Study Shows That BitTorrent Piracy Doesn’t Affect U.S. Box Office Profits (Page 3)

 
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Author Topic: Study Shows That BitTorrent Piracy Doesn’t Affect U.S. Box Office Profits
Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2253
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted 02-18-2012 03:01 AM      Profile for Justin Hamaker   Author's Homepage   Email Justin Hamaker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And to add to what Ed is saying, there are plenty of very good movies released every year which are not sequels or adaptation of comic books or TV shows or popular book franchises. Unfortunately most of the movies fail to draw an audience.

Just a couple nights ago I watched "Never Let Me Go". I can't say I loved it, but it was much more interesting than the average wide release. It had a good story, well developed characters, and so forth. But it made a whopping $2.4 million at the box office.

There are plenty of other options available through the year, but audiences have shown over and over that those are not the movies they turn out for. Moviegoers generally want mindless entertainment that allows them to check their brain at the door.

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Victor Liorentas
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 800
From: london ontario canada
Registered: May 2009


 - posted 02-18-2012 11:36 AM      Profile for Victor Liorentas   Email Victor Liorentas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A little point about 1&2 on that list. They were very hard sells especially Titanic.Avatar was also a risk because of the unproven effects in 3d of all virtual worlds looking less than real.

A love story wrapped around the sinking of the Titanic with real dives to the real ship and a huge budget which would become out of control.No one was playing it safe here except trusting James Cameron's track record.If The Abyss came back to haunt either of these films,each could have been a Heaven's Gate like failure.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

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From: Denver, Colorado
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 - posted 02-18-2012 11:06 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Justin Hamaker
there are plenty of very good movies released every year which are not sequels or adaptation of comic books or TV shows or popular book franchises.
Careful. By using the word "plenty" your sentence means there is a satisfactory amount of those releases and no more are needed. It can even mean there are more than enough of said type of movie.

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Justin Hamaker
Film God

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From: Lakeport, CA USA
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 - posted 02-19-2012 02:53 AM      Profile for Justin Hamaker   Author's Homepage   Email Justin Hamaker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How about if I say "Many" instead of "Plenty".

I'll also add that a number of the small/arty films which wind up being less than good are still more interesting than many of the major studio releases.

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Steven Stroud
Film Handler

Posts: 13
From: Cuyahoga Falls, OH
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 02-21-2012 01:59 AM      Profile for Steven Stroud   Email Steven Stroud   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Justin Hamaker
Ask any theatre that runs a discount day how their customers change on the discount day. Ask any movie lover who has gone to the movies on a discount day how they feel about the environment on those days.
We run a discount day. $5 Monday. We also have some really amazing concession deals on mondays.

This, essentially, gives us a four day weekend. Our attendance is better on most Mondays than it is on Friday or Saturday. Couple that with our concession deals and you have some really great numbers. This is most apparent during the school year. I remember how slow mondays were when I worked for Cinemark and even during my time with General Cinemas... not the case at this place. Our per-cap is very respectable. It's proof positive that the people respond to lower prices.

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003


 - posted 02-23-2012 06:53 PM      Profile for Scott Jentsch   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Jentsch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On the original topic of whether illegal downloads (not just torrents) hurt theatrical release box office figures, I think there may be a small effect, but largely, people willing to watch a movie that's been recorded off a movie screen with a camcorder tucked away are not going to be prime candidates to pay theatrical admission prices to see that movie.

That doesn't make what they're doing any less wrong or less illegal, it's just that I don't think these people would magically pay for movie tickets if illegal downloads were suddenly unavailable.

I think the point that the delayed theatrical release driving more people to download movies illegally has some merit. Studios create a demand by advertising the latest and greatest movie, but if the audience can't get it one way (going to their local theater), but they can get it another way (downloads, street vendor, etc.), they're going to do it.

Now that digital cinema is becoming more prevalent, the logistical challenge of worldwide releases is largely nonexistent. If anything, it would be a way to encourage conversions to digital cinema, as theaters could get a DCP now, or wait 3-4 weeks to get the film cans. That probably won't work because studios want to manage the marketing and release of their product, and such staggered/inconsistent releases would impact the first weekend's numbers.

This is also why I think that lengthening the home video release window would encourage more piracy. If they don't want to go to the theater to see the movie (reasons for this follow), knowing that they won't be able to see the movie for more than four months would encourage them to look for alternatives.

quote:
1) - The "Big screen" experience.
2) - The "Big sound"

Way too many theaters fall down in these two features. A decently-sized screen is going to cost you extra for the XD/ETX/RPX/IMAX/UltraScreen upcharge. That's like Taco Bell wanting to charge you extra for real meat in their tacos -- what would the market's response be to that?

Getting sound in the home that can beat a vast majority of movie theaters will cost an enthusiast approximately $2,000. This is not a sum that would scare away any enthusiast that wants to have an impressive sonic experience. Add another $2,000 and a decent room environment, and you will blow away any movie theater open today, bar none.

Good video in the home is a little more expensive, but not much. LED TV's that produce great pictures in the 60-70" range can be had for about $2,000. A really nice projector and screen can be had for about $3,500 total.

Take that $4,000 sound system, combine it with the $3,500 video system, and put it in a dedicated room that is up to the task, and you have an environment which will kill 95% of the movie theaters when it comes to sound and picture quality.

Most theaters lose in this competition, because even non-enthusiasts are likely not going to discern the difference between their inexpensive setup at home and what's in most theaters. So they can't compete with the enthusiasts, and they can't impress the non-enthusiasts. Not a good position to be in.

quote: Joe Redifer
3) - To "experience" the movie with a real crowd
Very rarely does the crowd add to the movies I see in theaters. Many times, I'm going on a Tuesday or Wednesday evening, so there's usually less than a dozen people in the theater. The right crowd can really make a difference, and that's usually with comedies, but I remember a viewing of Jurassic Park that the collective reactions during the jump moments made them more enjoyable. For every great experience, there are many more with cell phone usage, talking, seat kicking, or other crowd-related disruptions.

quote:
4) - A night out on the town, great for dates!
As long as your home environment isn't offensive in some way (what's that smell?), cozying up on a couch is going to be much more romantic than going to a theater. There is the "going out" factor, but I think that's often overstated as a plus for the movie theater side of the equation.

quote: Joe Redifer
5) - The delicious movie snacks from the concession stand enhance the moviegoing experience.
Concessions with movies kind of naturally go together for many people. Cheaper ticket prices make for more concession sales in some theaters I'm aware of. Per-caps are higher than competitors for the same movies in the same markets (price for adult evening show: $5.50 vs $9.00).

quote: Joe Redifer
6) - You get to see the movie when it is brand new.
This exclusivity of product remains the sole reason that movie theaters don't fade into the sunset. Not because of any other reason except for the fact that most movie theaters do very little to deserve getting the money their customers are spending. Given an equal opportunity to obtain that product elsewhere, people would avoid substandard movie theaters in droves.

Am I happy with that? Absolutely not, as I make my money on the basis of people going to movie theaters. I just wish more theaters tried harder to attract their audiences...

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

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From: New Castle, DE, USA
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 - posted 02-23-2012 10:19 PM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steven Stroud
We run a discount day. $5 Monday. We also have some really amazing concession deals on mondays.

This, essentially, gives us a four day weekend. Our attendance is better on most Mondays than it is on Friday or Saturday. Couple that with our concession deals and you have some really great numbers. This is most apparent during the school year. I remember how slow mondays were when I worked for Cinemark and even during my time with General Cinemas... not the case at this place. Our per-cap is very respectable. It's proof positive that the people respond to lower prices.

Funny. I had that idea (except on Tuesdays) years ago, and no one wanted to listen.

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Dennis Benjamin
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Denton, MD
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 - posted 03-06-2012 04:25 PM      Profile for Dennis Benjamin   Author's Homepage   Email Dennis Benjamin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The irony of this thread:

I am attending NATO's "Movie Piracy" seminar tomorrow in D.C.

I'm looking forward to arguing with the reps from the MPAA and NATO.

Should be fun...

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

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From: Denver, Colorado
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 - posted 03-06-2012 04:56 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Let us know how that goes!

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Dennis Benjamin
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From: Denton, MD
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 - posted 03-08-2012 02:03 PM      Profile for Dennis Benjamin   Author's Homepage   Email Dennis Benjamin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No arguing occurred.

I was very impressed with the rep from Paramount.

John Fithian was as professional as usual (didn't expect to see him there).

What I learned from this seminar:

There are still a whole bunch of idiots out there camming movies and getting caught.

The MPAA and the film companies are starting to realize that the individuals involved in these types of activities are not necessarily in it for the money. They have what I call the 'hacker' mentality - in that they just want bragging rights to the fact that they were the 1st to get the film out there on the 'Net - despite the fact that it is illegal.

Apparently the Mid-Atlantic area has become a hotbed of this type of activity. There were reps from Homeland Security and the Baltimore Police Dept.describing cases they were involved in.

They still do not want to recognize the fact that screener copies are getting out there and there was no real discussion of that subject (no surprise).

I learned more than I thought I would...

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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From: Lawton, OK, USA
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 - posted 03-08-2012 06:22 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not surprised the studio and MPAA reps would avoid the topic of screener discs being a preferred source for creating mass produced pirated movies (or high quality torrents).

If the studios acknowledged the fact screener discs are a source for mass produced illegal discs they would be forced to make their own internal policy changes about the discs. They would either have to eliminate the use of such discs entirely or produce very few and place severe restrictions on their use. Either solution would piss off various people with big egos who are too good to sit with other people in a movie theater or private screening room.

So, I think the MPAA and studio execs are actually willing to live with the problem to a certain extent. Leaving the situation as it is and just griping about it seems preferable to telling various actors, executives, critics and other VIPs they can't have a screener DVD and will just have to watch the show in a movie theater like the rest of the commoners.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

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From: Forsyth, Montana
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 - posted 03-13-2012 01:50 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We are showing "The Artist" right now. Friday night, we had a lady come to the show and she told us that she had already seen the movie ... on a DVD. I said, how's that when it isn't out on video yet? She said her son-in-law is a member of SAG and he gave her a copy he had gotten.

I told her he shouldn't be loaning his screeners out like that, he could get in big trouble for that, and she couldn't understand why. I told her this is how movies get out onto the internet, etc. She probably thought I was crazy. I'm tempted to turn the dude in, but I doubt anything would happen since at least he didn't mass produce the thing.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

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From: Denver, Colorado
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 - posted 03-13-2012 03:02 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Turn the dude in, nothing noticeable will happen. In fact he probably got it from another member, there's no way that ALL SAG members got DVDs. In order for something to happen, the MPAA would need to acknowledge it as a problem which they never will.

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Edward Havens
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From: Los Angeles, CA
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 - posted 03-13-2012 09:16 AM      Profile for Edward Havens   Email Edward Havens   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe, ever since Lionsgate sent DVDs of Crash to every SAG member in 2005 and ended up winning the SAG Ensemble Award (and eventually the Oscar), the practice has become quite standard. Even two and three years ago, we were only allowed to accept SAG Nominating Committee members to screen possible SAG Award nominees at our theatre. Now, as soon as the nominations come out, all SAG members are sent Hollywood Movie Money coupons so they can see the films in theatres.

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Mark J. Marshall
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From: New Castle, DE, USA
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 - posted 03-13-2012 12:57 PM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Dennis Benjamin
Homeland Security
Nice to know they have their priorities straight.

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