Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: The End Is Near - Go to the movies while you still can (Article)

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Topic: The End Is Near - Go to the movies while you still can (Article)

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-28-2017 06:05 PM

quote: Mike Schulz
As to the VOD issue that will ultimately lead to day-and-date once they inevitably start doing it, they have a long way to go if they want to prevent piracy. Right now, it's next to impossible to steal audio/video from an encrypted DCP package but literally every single VOD release has an active torrent of the steaming rip within hours. They are going to dig their own graves with that one.

People supposedly like getting out of the house, but with all the headlines I've been seeing lately I really have to question that often repeated claim. An alarming number of retailers going bust. 100+ year old Sears may be among the causalities this year. Restaurant chains have been struggling. Attendance at art museums and arts-related shows is down. Ultimately, people really love saving money. And saving money is clearly trumping the getting out of the house activity.

quote: Bobby Henderson
Concerts have been turning into their own shit show lately.

I wrote this earlier today. And then I saw national news coverage about the Fyre Festival in the Bahamas. This is the epitome of what's wrong with concert going today. Excess douche-baggery on the part of promoters and sheer exploitation of the customers. On the other hand it's kind of difficult to feel sorry for concert-goers who were actually willing to drop anywhere from $5000 to $250,000 per ticket on what has turned out to be a monumental clusterfuck and possible fraud.

Reading about what attendees at the Fyre Festival were having to put up with makes the hardships suffered at Rocklahoma seem pretty minor by comparison.

quote: Leo Enticknap
Net neutrality is basically the only thing that prevents the ISP and IPTV monsters from joining forces and playing the cable TV monsters at their own game (i.e. adopting the content bundle business model).

Between the IPTV monsters and content producers (TV networks, movie studios, production companies) it's easy to imagine them ratcheting up the currently cheap prices to levels just as expensive as regular cable TV.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-28-2017 06:20 PM

You can say what you want about nobody wanting to leave the house, but concerts are routinely sold out in 10 minutes or less, and lots of movie theaters are packed to the rafters on opening weekends, so clearly SOME people are leaving the house.

Retailers don't belong in the same group with movie theaters on this question, I don't think. Whether you shop from home or in person at a store, the end result is the same: you get a product you wanted to buy. Going to a theater gives you something you can in no way get at home, i.e. a trip out of the house.

One thing that never gets mentioned around here much is people's shifting habits as they age. There was a time when I would go to just about any concert there was, because I loved (and still love) going to concerts. As I've gotten older, I'm not as willing to put up with the usual concert crap as I once was. Plus the music has gotten crappier (according to my personal tastes). I'd say the same goes for a lot of older, less-frequent moviegoers, for both of those reasons.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 04-28-2017 06:45 PM

quote: Mike Blakesley
You can say what you want about nobody wanting to leave the house, but concerts are routinely sold out in 10 minutes or less, and lots of movie theaters are packed to the rafters on opening weekends, so clearly SOME people are leaving the house.

The love of the entertainment world. Only business that made the money during the depression, was the cinema business.

People got out to get away from a depressing sad world and to enter one where one can forget about these attributes for the moment.

Can't do this at home.

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Jarod Reddig
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 513
From: Hays, Ks
Registered: Jun 2011

posted 04-28-2017 07:02 PM

A very well written article with lots of truths . Sad but true.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-28-2017 09:07 PM

quote: Mike Blakesley
You can say what you want about nobody wanting to leave the house, but concerts are routinely sold out in 10 minutes or less, and lots of movie theaters are packed to the rafters on opening weekends, so clearly SOME people are leaving the house.

I never said "nobody" wants to leave the house. Out of the group of people who do leave the house, particularly the minority of people in the general public who visit movie theaters on a regular or semi-regular basis, the numbers are being whittled downward. The schemes the bean counters are plotting threaten to whittle down that customer segment even worse.

Are you suggesting movie theaters will survive day and date release or theatrical windows of only a couple of weeks just fine? You don't think theaters would see their attendance numbers take a hit?

quote: Mike Blakesley
Retailers don't belong in the same group with movie theaters on this question, I don't think. Whether you shop from home or in person at a store, the end result is the same: you get a product you wanted to buy. Going to a theater gives you something you can in no way get at home, i.e. a trip out of the house.

Shopping is a "get out of the house" activity. So is eating out while taking that shopping trip. And visiting a movie theater while out of the house falls in the same category. Many shopping centers, be it obsolete indoor malls or trendy "town centers," tend to feature retail stores, restaurants and movie theaters all on the same property. Since 2010 more than 2 dozen indoor malls in the US have closed. More than 75 others are on the brink of failure. The slump in brick and mortar retail has a contagion that is affecting restaurant business. The same contagion can spread to movie theaters.

Getting out of the house has its ups and downs. And watching a movie in a commercial theater is no longer necessarily any better than watching at home. That is absolutely true on the technical end. The two experiences are different, both with their distinct pros and cons.

quote: Mike Blakesley
One thing that never gets mentioned around here much is people's shifting habits as they age. There was a time when I would go to just about any concert there was, because I loved (and still love) going to concerts. As I've gotten older, I'm not as willing to put up with the usual concert crap as I once was. Plus the music has gotten crappier (according to my personal tastes). I'd say the same goes for a lot of older, less-frequent moviegoers, for both of those reasons.

I went to a lot of rock concerts when I was in high school and college. I still go to some these days. I miss how things were in the 1980's and early 1990's. The bands had bigger, more elaborate sets (Iron Maiden, Yes, Rush and Ronnie James Dio were among the bands awesome at this). Today the bands just set up their gear in front of a LED board and call it a day. The price gouging for tickets, memorabilia and even things like beer wasn't so extreme in the past. Back then there were scalping companies that bought out big sections of seats, but not at the nefarious extremes we see today. I think the performers and promoters seemed a little more ethical in how they treated the fans (playing on time, good venue conditions, etc.). I mentioned Rocklahoma earlier. It's one of the biggest rock festivals in the world. But it's also an insufferable pain in the ass to attend. It seems like some of these festival organizers are trying to repeat the goof-ups made at Woodstock on purpose. If I want to see an outdoor concert I want to enjoy it, not go through a survival ordeal while witnessing the show.

Some bands try to do their fans a favor with making it easier to buy concert tickets and have a better time at the show. I remember Trent Reznor/Nine Inch Nails making advance ticket sales available only through his web site during one tour. Customers had to register at his web site and then go through some CAPTCHA stuff to get to the ticket ordering pages. This helped defeat some of the "bot" programs scalping companies use to buy huge quantities of seats the very instant they go on sale. And it defeats human scaplers wanting to buy up a whole section of floor seats in one purchase.

Most bands don't seem to give a shit about mass ticket scalping operations. They operate on the same level as professional sports teams. The face value of the ticket means nothing. It kind of makes me wonder if the bands are getting a "taste" of the scalpers' operations.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-28-2017 11:07 PM

quote: Bobby Henderson
Shopping is a "get out of the house" activity. So is eating out while taking that shopping trip.

Your point is well taken, but I never never heard a man say the words, "Just for fun, let's go shopping!" Women go shopping for fun - men go shopping because there's something they need to buy. Not 100% of either gender of course...my wife and mom both hate to shop.

It's true that concerts are using more LED panels these days. The early days of LEDs saw them just replaying what was happening on stage, but more recent shows feature spectacular displays of animation and graphics. Some of the setups are truly spectacular. We went and saw the Chicago/Earth, Wind & Fire tour last winter and it was downright amazing visually. We also saw Trans Siberian Orchestra and KISS last year too -- all the shows started right on time and featured extraordinary sound, staging and all. I realize these are all veteran acts with a reputation for quality...acts that abuse their fans the way you say deserve a quick trip to the "where are they now?" file.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-28-2017 11:21 PM

LED jumbotron displays are getting better and better. I still remember the early days where it cost a fortune for a crude outdoor display with a coarse 35mm pitch between pixel centers. The outdoor units now have pixel densities as tight as 4mm and the indoor displays go as tight as 1.2mm. That's tight enough to do 4K or even 8K if the cost could be brought down out of the stratosphere.

I like really tricked out motion graphics. It's fun to play around in Adobe After Effects. But an LED board erected behind the band isn't the same as a set that had to be physically built. Some bands had multiple sets that had to be moved in and out between songs when the lights were dark. There was more stage craft back then. Nowadays a band could have ILM put together a great motion graphics sequence for an LED wall behind them. But in the end it's still just a video file. And all they have is their amplifers set up in front or below it. It just doesn't seem like as much effort is going into the show. But yet the ticket prices, "convenience fees" and all sorts of other shit have made concerts far more expensive.

quote: Mike Blakesley
Your point is well taken, but I never never heard a man say the words, "Just for fun, let's go shopping!" Women go shopping for fun - men go shopping because there's something they need to buy. Not 100% of either gender of course...my wife and mom both hate to shop.

And how many of us in relationships and marriages get dragged to the mall or town center to shop, eat out and catch a movie with our significant other? Pretty high percentage. I'm firmly in the camp of shopping only to get what I need and then get the hell out of the place. But I have to keep a girlfriend happy.

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Buck Wilson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 894
From: St. Joseph MO, USA
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 04-30-2017 01:41 AM

quote: Bobby Henderson
Ultimately, people really love saving money. And saving money is clearly trumping the getting out of the house activity.

I think it may be more like "people HAVE to save money" I think people's level of spending money is on an ever downward spiral.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-30-2017 01:59 PM

The average person's capacity for "discretionary spending" (blowing money on fun stuff like eating out and trips to the movies) is definitely getting squeezed. The health care, housing and automobile industries are greedily price gouging, taking up ever greater percentages of the average American's paycheck.

The health care industry currently eats 17.8% ($3.2 trillion) of America's GDP and it's on a pace to pass 20% before the year 2020. This is by far the highest percentage of GDP any nation in the world spends on health care. France is a distant 2nd at 12%.

Student loan debt is a worsening problem. The debt bubble has doubled over the past 10 years to $1.3 trillion, spread out among 44 million borrowers, $49,905 average per household. The average class of 2016 graduate has $37,000 in debt. Loan delinquency (more than 90 days behind in payments) has grown to 11.2% in the last quarter of 2016. Despite this problem college tuition costs continue to rise at very high inflation levels.

In 2016 Americans owed $779 billion in credit card debt ($16,748 avg per household), $8.48 trillion on mortgages ($176,222 avg per household), $1.16 trillion on auto loans ($28,948 per household).

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 04-30-2017 07:39 PM

quote: Bobby Henderson
And all they have is their amplifers set up in front or below it. It just doesn't seem like as much effort is going into the show.

(3/5 reunited) Guns n' Roses takes it a step further. The stage for the "Not in this Lifetime" tour features LED boards where the amplifiers normally would be. They show graphics of Marshall amps on there most of the time.

They also have LED board fronts on the steps that lead to the sides of the drum riser.

Behind them is a giant 4 panel LED board and the panels move during the show. Sometimes they combine into one huge panel and sometimes they have gaps with lighting rigs in between.

There is also an LED board on both sides of the stage that shows performer close-ups during the show.

As for the scalper issue, ticketmaster has started doing "platinum seats." Basically, they hold back some of the best seats and the price varies by market conditions. It seems they try to undercut the scalpers slightly to try and get people not to buy similar seats from scalpers. Of course, ticketmaster has their own set of ridiculous add on fees.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-30-2017 09:58 PM

I think the biggest scam nowadays in concert tickets is the "presale." If you join the fan club for X dollars, or have a certain kind of credit card, you get access to the "presale" during which they would probably sell all the seats if they could, or maybe they hold a few back for the real on-sale date.

Lately I've seen concerts with TWO pre-sales...there's the one for the fan club as mentioned, and then another one (usually the next day) for people who agree to receive email spam from the promoter. Then after two days of pre-sales, the "real" on sale date arrives for the "general public" where there's probably about two dozen nosebleed seats left, if that.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-01-2017 12:51 AM

The fan club thing for pre-sale concert tickets is definitely a scam if they're going to charge money for the membership. When Nine Inch Nails was doing this type of thing it didn't cost anything to register. The effort was done to try to defeat the bots that auto-buy all but the nosebleed seats.

I wish rock bands were most pro-active across the board on this front. After all they're getting paid little to nothing for actual album sales (thanks to record industry accounting practices even more shady than those of the movie industry). Most bands only make money via touring. It would actually serve them best if they took steps to make sure actual fans were filling the floor seats and front rows at their shows rather than a bunch of well-connected douche bags only casually familiar with the performers. The energy at the shows will be better. I suspect companies like Ticketmaster are giving these bands a cut of the convenience fee pie. I suspect large ticket scalping companies are doing the same thing.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-01-2017 02:14 AM

There are some bands who give you access to the presales if you just join their free mailing list, but almost all of them have a fan club where they tout "great concert seats before they're available to the general public!!!"

We went to a Trans Siberian Orchestra show in Minneapolis last winter...it was such a refreshing experience. There were no silly presales, the tickets were priced way reasonable for a band of their stature, there was no sky-high "facility fee" (it was built in to the tickets if it was there at all). Postage costs were the cheapest I've ever seen too. Buying those tickets was so pleasant that I found myself wishing there was a way to leave a tip.

By contrast, our local arena (Metrapark in Billings) charges $16.50 PER TICKET for "convenience fees," plus they tack on an "internet fee" of $2 per order, plus (my favorite gouge of all time) if you want to print your tickets at home, they CHARGE YOU $2 EXTRA TO DO THAT. And, their seats are old (1975 vintage), worn and cramped.

People should quit bellyaching about movie ticket prices (because you actually are getting more for your ticket money these days) and go to war against the concert industry instead - that's where the real ripoffs are going on these days.

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