DTS XD-10 : Won't Power UP

[Jim Cassedy]

Oh no! My DTS XD-10 is DEAD. It won't power up. It was fine the last time we ran
70mm BRUTALIST, and has been turned off ever since.
> Yes, I know there's another power switch on the back of the unit.
> Both rocker-type power switches 'feel normal', like they are working properly.
> I pulled the AC power cable off of another piece of equipment that was working,
and plugged it into the back of the XD10. . . still no power.

DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THERE ARE ANY FUSES INSIDE? I'm running
two events in the building and haven't had a chance to check the manual yet.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Not any fuses per se, but it is a regular PC type power supply, there might be fuses in there.

I would unplug the supply cables and see if shorting the power pins on the large molex connector turns it on as expected. If not order a replacement while investigating.

[Jim Cassedy]

Yes, I noticed from the back that where the power cord plugs in that it looks like a
regular PC type supply. Unfortunately, I'm already tied up doing two other events
tonight which will totally monopolize my attention. I think they may get our service
tech in here because I'm too 'overbooked' between now and Wednesday, so,
much to my frustration, I have no time to troubleshoot/repair.
( My company is too damn cheap to pay two union projectionists, so I'm all they've got)

[Ryan Gallagher]

Yes, I noticed from the back that where the power cord plugs in that it looks like a
regular PC type supply. Unfortunately, I'm already tied up doing two other events
tonight which will totally monopolize my attention. I think they may get our service
tech in here because I'm too 'overbooked' between now and Wednesday, so,
much to my frustration, I have no time to troubleshoot/repair.
( My company is too damn cheap to pay two union projectionists, so I'm all they've got)

You were not explicit, but by "dead" you mean not even any fan spin on the power supply correct?

Depending on how it is racked I could easily imagine assuming it is fully dead if it doesn't boot and no activity on the front, which would be a different trouble shooting path.

[Jim Cassedy]

<edited> by "dead" you mean not even any fan spin
on the power supply correct?

No fans. Nothing. Zip. Nada. It is definitely morally, ethically, spiritually,
physically, positively, absolutely, undeniably and reliably dead.

(Wizard of Oz, Reel 2A)

UPDATE:
D'oh! I should have my head examined! I started to have a strange sense of
Deja Vu and suddenly remembered that I've actually replaced not one, but
TWO XD10 power supplies in the past. Not only that, but I got some help
from youse guys here on FT.

Read it here:
https://www.film-tech.com/ubb/f1/t010853.html

[Blaine Young]

My first thought isn't a power supply (although that is certainly possible), but bulging caps on the motherboard. There are 20 (or so) around the CPU which have been known to fail.

[Jim Cassedy]

My first thought isn't a power supply (although that is certainly possible),
but bulging caps on the motherboard. There are 20 (or so) around the
CPU which have been known to fail.

Now that my memories from the two "dead" XD10's I repaired 14 years ago seem to
have returned, and I've found some other documentation in archived e-mails, I can
can say that what I had back then were two different types of 'power failure' on two
different units.
> Neither XD-10 would boot up.
> The problem with the first unit turned out to be the actual power supply.
> The 2nd unit had the bulging motherboard capacitors problem.
You have to remember that many of the XD-10's power supplies and their mother
boards were built during the dreaded 'capacitor plague' years. (appx 1999-2003/4).

Troubleshooting-wise, the easiest way to determine which problem is which is that if
the power supply itself has failed, the unit is (usually) totally dead. Not even the fan
on the p/s will be running. This was the type of failure I had on Thursday. The
power bricks are basically standard ATX type computer power supplies. DTS
apparently sourced them from several suppliers over the years, so some of them
have a fuse in the back near where the AC cord plugs in, and some do not. The
one that went out on me the other night did not have a fuse.

When the motherboard caps go, the p/s itself will usually show some life (ie:the
fan is working) and one or more of the led's or the backlight on the LCD panel
may be lit, albeit dimly or flickering. (and, of course, when you pull the top
cover off, you can see the bulging capacitors. I recall this happening on the
2nd failed unit I fixed. For that repair, I got a replacement motherboard direct
from DTS, which was still around at that time.

Fri 09/19 UPDATE:
Because I was too busy running several 'live' events on Thursday which
required operator presence, I did not have time to pull the DTS outta the rack
and troubleshoot, even though I was 99½% sure the power supply was shot.
So, my tech-supervisor down in LA recommended we call in our STRONG
Services Technician to deal with the DTS issue.
I was at the theater very early (6am!) this morning, prepping our 70mm 'One
Battle After Another' print, and aligning our 70mm film projectors & masking
for a studio advance premiere event later this week. I was just finishing up
and getting ready to leave around noon when our tech arrived and began
work on the DTS. Of course, my technical curiosity (and the fact that I was
already on OT pay) compelled me to stick around while he pulled the DTS
and popped open the cover. Motherboard caps and and other circuit parts
looked undamaged, with no signs or smells of overheating or shorted
components. The front power switch ohm'd out OK. That pretty much
narrowed it down to the power-supply assembly itself. He headed out to
pick up a replacement supply, and I headed home. A couple of hours later
he messaged me & sent a photo showing our XD-10 is happy and back in
service again! Woo Hoo!

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I only had a couple of very early XD-10's that had capacitor plague components. In XD-10's it's always the power supply.

[Ryan Gallagher]

I only had a couple of very early XD-10's that had capacitor plague components. In XD-10's it's always the power supply.

Count ourselves fairly lucky that those OEM supply’s don’t fail in a way that takes out the MB too it seems. That seems to be an issue with modern cheaper supplies more frequently in PCs. Cross our fingers with the replacements!

[Marco Giustini]

I only had a couple of very early XD-10's that had capacitor plague components. In XD-10's it's always the power supply.

a couple or a dozen, Mark?

IMG_7403.jpg

[Steve Guttag]

We've definitely done the re-capping thing on XD10s from the 2003-2006 era. Normally the sign that you have bad caps is it gets progressively harder for it to boot up to the point where it won't boot up any longer. It powers up but it won't make it through the bootup.

[Jim Cassedy]

Here's the dead power supply that had to be replaced. It's a fairly common
ATX type computer supply, and they're still easy to source online or locally.
DeadPwrSply.jpg

I've had this in my 'emergency' tool kit for several years, and although we didn't need it the
other day, since it was obvious our power supply was totally dead, it has come in handy
in the past to diagnose power supplies that 'look' like they're working, but which may have
problems on one or more outputs. It's got 5 or 6 sockets that mate with the plugs on most
'box' type power supplies, and I don't remember what I paid for it, but it wasn't expensive.
PS_Tester_1.jpg

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

a couple or a dozen, Mark?

IMG_7403.jpg

At least. That post is old! I had 8, 10, and 12 plex's full of XD-10's. When I worked at CLACO, We Also serviced Cineplex-AMC as well. This is not to mention all the DTS6D players that also had the capacitor plague issue. Probably 50 units in total between the two models. I carried capacitor kits and did them on-site. The I/O connectors on their new board were in different locations Local units, I brought to the shop. Never happened to a DTS-6, those were built pre-capacitor plague. I also replaced DTS TCR LED's, but only in the shop. Then there are the Strong switching xenon supplies, 2.5, and 4kw. I repaired over a hundred of those at my own shop in Salt Lake City after I left CLACO. Theater chains were shipping them to me from all over the place. Lots from the West Coast.

Previously, DTS held a small training class for a couple of us, that we attended at the Factory in CA. They would also rebuild them there, but only by doing a costly rebuild that replaced the motherboard and most of the chassis. Customer cost on that was about $1800 give or take.
I also rebuilt Dolby power supplies on site. Mostly CP-65. A few USL, and Panastereo. Doesn't take long to fix those.

[Steve Guttag]

Yeah, it isn't practical to change the DTS LEDs in the field. Once you solve the jigsaw puzzle of getting the guide roller off of the LED bracket, you'll find that there is a channel of RTV holding the last bit of the red/black (could be different colors) wires and the LED itself. So, once you dig all of that out, depending on if you were lucky in not damaging the wires (including from the reader disassembly), you have to put it all back but, before you can do that, you have to let the new RTV cure. Then you can put it all back together and aim the LED at the lens/cell/test. There is but so much time in an operating theatre.

I never needed to repair the CP65 power supplies. For the Panastereo, the fan was the biggest failure point for me. Some claimed the small bridge rectifier but I didn't have problems with those. The PS510 never seemed to have problems.

Strong derated the compact 1-3KW supplies to 1-2.5KW. I wonder how close to the edge it was at 3KW. Depending on what part of the supply you are looking at or what literature you are reading, it would still say 1-3KW.

[Leo Enticknap]

No fans. Nothing. Zip. Nada. It is definitely morally, ethically, spiritually, physically, positively, absolutely, undeniably and reliably dead.

Maybe John Cleese could return it to the store for you?