Terminator 2 Re-release

[Marcel Birgelen]

Looking at the rare pictures of CDS equipment on the in70mm page, that system wasn't for the faint of heart... The processing unit is like 7 rack units high and pretty deep too... wonder how heavy it actually was or if it was "designed for future upgrades", as in more of an empty box or if all this volume was actually needed for the decoding at the time.

The formidable size of the penthouse reader becomes clear when you see it perched on top of the DP70...

The site also has a list of cinemas that (supposedly) were at one time equipped with CDS equipment. It's interesting to see that there apparently a few flew over the pond as there were also a handful of locations in Europe.

Looking at a frame, even magnified, you can't really make out any pixel structure, so the information density was extremely high for the medium. I can understand that this was quite a fragile medium and the lack of any backup soundtrack didn't make it better...

[Jim Cassedy]

(edited) that system wasn't for the faint of heart...
<edit> Looking at a frame, even magnified, you can't really make out any pixel
structure, so the information density was extremely high for the medium. I can
understand that this was quite a fragile medium and the lack of any backup
soundtrack didn't make it better...

Also, remember that CDS was introduced in the early 1990's, which meant it was
probably engineered using image acquisition and error correction technology from
in the late 1980's. Obviously things have advanced greatly since then. Most of the
cameras we now have built into our cell phones, have specs exceeding many
broadcast TV cameras of the late 80's.

Through some online research I've discovered that the CDS system was apparently
based on technology originally conceived and patented by inventors Elwyn Berlekamp
and Loyd Welch. If you'd like to follow me down the CDS reading rabbit hole, the US
patent numbers are 5,271,021 and 5,271,022. These are the 'core' patents. there
are others, but these patents have provided me the best insight and understanding
on how the CDS system worked that I"ve been able to find so far.
(Especially the diagrams and system flow-charts! ) ENJOY!

> Also, one of the issues of Kodak's "FILM NOTES FOR REEL PEOPLE" has
almost an entire issue about CDS sound. It's written mostly like a marketing piece,
and is little light on technical details but you can read it in the FT warehouse:
https://www.film-tech.com/warehouse/manuals/H5025.pdf

[Marcel Birgelen]

Also, remember that CDS was introduced in the early 1990's, which meant it was
probably engineered using image acquisition and error correction technology from
in the late 1980's. Obviously things have advanced greatly since then. Most of the
cameras we now have built into our cell phones, have specs exceeding many
broadcast TV cameras of the late 80's.

Thanks for posting the link back to the warehouse, I'm not sure what it is, but yeah, those rabbit holes of some bygone technology, they tend to get me...

Regarding that early 1980s technology: Sure, but be honest here; I'd consider SRD a far more advanced design than CDS and it was released barely two years later, also based on late 1980s AND very early 1990s technology. If you look at the CP65/DA10: That's a far smaller footprint than the CDS behemoth, yet it also reads a (for the time) high bit-rate data stream via a CCD camera. It does far more than that though, it doesn't just apply error correction, it buffers AND it decompresses 6 discrete channels. Besides that, it's also an audio processor that does analog audio, at the same time and it can switch between both... live, based on self-diagnosed error conditions. It wasn't until the "Zoran" ASIC became available, that the real 1990s technology kicked into gear for SRD.

So, while it's certainly interesting to read about CDS, looking at what they did, putting a somewhat compressed PCM track with error correction on-film, was an interesting achievement, but I can see the flaws from miles away. What Dolby did was actual engineering gold: taking into account the real-life limitations of the technology and delivering, in the end, a much more reliable, better engineered product that required far less footprint and was most-likely way cheaper to deploy (would be interesting what the price was for a one-projector CDS install back in 1990).

[Steve Guttag]

The AFI/Silver is running a "well enjoyed" print of T2 this weekend and it does have mag tracks. I don't know the A/SR status, however.

[Chris Haller]

The AFI/Silver is running a "well enjoyed" print of T2 this weekend and it does have mag tracks. I don't know the A/SR status, however.

I'll be down on Monday to see the afternoon show with my dad. Seemed like a good excuse to finally drive down and visit the AFI/Silver theater. "Well enjoyed," sounds fine to me.

[Tj Hopland]

Was there ever dual inventory of A and SR prints?

I do remember running one print in the early 2000's that was SR with split surrounds. I think the leaders had what looked to be lab applied stickers that indicated that was the format. It could have been T2, I know that was a title that played around that time just don't remember if that was the one or not. What ever the title was it sounded terrible in SR, my guess was levels were just not correct. Didn't come with any loops and the leaders didn't have tone on em. Tried guessing but that did help. Ended up running in A and it was decent.

[Chris Haller]

Just got out of what I can only call a heroic screening of the 70mm print of T2 that ran at AFI Silver Spring.

it had everything. Splices out of frame. Variable volumes off the mag tracks. 35mm roller scratches AND some horizontal platter scratches. That projectionist was on their game and had to work for it. Beyond that, for a 35 year old print that’s been run into the ground, the color was good, the sound was killer, and the quality of the blow up was high.

If you’re going to book a screening of this, that’s what you have to look forward to. My dad took the six hour drive down here with me, and commented on how the 1991 Kodak stock lacked a cyan retention layer that they introduced in the mid 90s, and because of that he could tell there was some cyan fading. I suppose he would know more than I would!

I was pretty impressed with how well it held up. A very worthy experience.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Just got out of what I can only call a heroic screening of the 70mm print of T2 that ran at AFI Silver Spring.

it had everything. Splices out of frame. Variable volumes off the mag tracks. 35mm roller scratches AND some horizontal platter scratches. That projectionist was on their game and had to work for it. Beyond that, for a 35 year old print that’s been run into the ground, the color was good, the sound was killer, and the quality of the blow up was high.

I'm hoping, for their sake, that you meant splices that occurred internally to a frame... not splice that actually throw the print a perf out? If you saw the latter occur and use of framing knobs that feels possibly more like inadequate time inspecting. But I expect you meant the former.

There is a certain level of "work" that makes projecting a tired print more fun... but only up to a point, beyond that threshold it becomes an anxiety inducing affair.

[Chris Haller]

I'm hoping, for their sake, that you meant splices that occurred internally to a frame... not splice that actually throw the print a perf out? If you saw the latter occur and use of framing knobs that feels possibly more like inadequate time inspecting. But I expect you meant the former.

There is a certain level of "work" that makes projecting a tired print more fun... but only up to a point, beyond that threshold it becomes an anxiety inducing affair.

Correct. Though I do suspect that there was a bit of practice going on with timing as we arrived. They were doing a practice run with some knob work when we rolled in. They even rewound the film with the mag head piping at max volume into the theater. Very….amusing.

[Brad Miller]

"Well enjoyed," sounds fine to me.

Film damage should never be celebrated. It's not something that "just gets that way".

it had everything. Splices out of frame. Variable volumes off the mag tracks. 35mm roller scratches AND some horizontal platter scratches. If you’re going to book a screening of this, that’s what you have to look forward to.

That sure sounds like a shit print to me, but if you've seen what I've seen coming back from those theaters with projectionists that just want to play instead of taking their presentation seriously as actual professionals, you would know why I'm not the least bit surprised.

Some people just want to watch the reels spin.

[Chris Haller]

Film damage should never be celebrated. It's not something that "just gets that way".


That sure sounds like a shit print to me, but if you've seen what I've seen coming back from those theaters with projectionists that just want to play instead of taking their presentation seriously as actual professionals, you would know why I'm not the least bit surprised.

Some people just want to watch the reels spin.

I'm not celebrating it, but I was born 4 years after Terminator 2 had its wide release. I never had a chance to watch a pristine print of the movie, and you can bet that I sure would love to. I know that print damage comes from carelessness and a lack of professionalism. But I don't think the AFI Silver Spring perpetrated any of it.

If there was a better print, I'd drive even farther to see it. But there isn't. So I take what I can get.

[Brad Miller]

I know that print damage comes from carelessness and a lack of professionalism. But I don't think the AFI Silver Spring perpetrated any of it.

I would be truly surprised if any of that damage happened at the AFI. They are one of the few venues with a consistently solid track record.

[Chris Haller]

I would be truly surprised if any of that damage happened at the AFI. They are one of the few venues with a consistently solid track record.

Agreed. I was glad to have an excuse to pay it a visit. What a great venue.

[Steve Guttag]

I would hope that they quickly heard their mistake of leaving the sound up and rewinding. Unlike the various non-magnetic sound, there is nothing that turns the sound off when they rewind. The Mag heads are connected to the MPU. So long as the format is selected on the CP200...the sound is "hot." Running a film fast over the heads is a good way to take out a diaphragm as the frequencies will all be up in their region.

I know that they were doing tests with A and SR cards to see which tracked the audio better. I think SR won. I don't recall if mono or stereo surrounds were determined.

Oh, and to the framing "knob" Here you go..."spin" away:

image.png

On the up-side, you can continuously "roll" the picture without losing the loops. You never bottom/top out.

[Scotty Wright]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but that 70mm print AFI showed may be the only “presentable” one left. American Cinematheque switched their show last Friday to dcp because the 70mm print they had was in such poor condition. They’re doing a makeup show at Aero this week with a print flown in from the east coast.