Installing 4.5k lamp in a Barco DP2K-23B

[Rick Cohen]

I started servicing a new site recently. One of the projectors has a 4.5k Osram lamp installed with about 600 hours on it. The 23B is only rated to operate up to a 4k lamp.

My question is, will the 4.5 k lamp be any brighter than the 4k lamp? Since the maximum amperage output of the projector is the same, I presume there is no increase in brightness.

My other question is, will there be any danger to the lamp or equipment by running the 4.5k lamp in a projector designed to only allow up to a 4k lamp?

Is there any real benefit to running a 4.5k lamp in a 23B? Or does the risk of damage to the projector outweigh any benefit?

[Christos Gartaganis]

It is not possible to install a 4.5 k lamp on the 23B due to its larger size and different electrode position in relation to the reflector's focal point. The 23B lamphouse is specifically designed to accommodate certain lamp models, such as the Ushio DXL-40BAF or the Osram XBO 4000 W/DHP.

[Rick Cohen]

It is not possible to install a 4.5 k lamp on the 23B due to its larger size and different electrode position in relation to the reflector's focal point. The 23B lamphouse is specifically designed to accommodate certain lamp models, such as the Ushio DXL-40BAF or the Osram XBO 4000 W/DHP.

They had a 32B lamphouse installed on the 23B.

[Tj Hopland]

Short answer calibrated eyeballometer probably not really going to see a difference between a 4500 and 4000 in the same projector on the same screen. But depending on the lamphouse and brands of lamps it may not even be possible to just swap. Generally speaking a 4000 is a physically smaller lamp meant for smaller projectors like C series / 0.98 machine. The 4500 is a physically larger lamp for the B's / 1.2 1.38 machines. Again brands and models vary so those are not hard rules. I will likely interchange the terms lamphouse and lamp module and bulb and lamp throughout the rest of this.


The Barco 19B and 23B shipped with the 'small' lamp module. The 32B shipped with the 'large' module that was pretty similar to the earlier modules that was pretty similar to the S1 and S 0.5 stuff. They will interchange between the models. Reflectors were different and which lamps they took was different. We had cases where a customer would buy a small module for their 32b and ran say a 4000 in the small one as their 2d lamp then ran a 6500 in the big one as their 3d lamp. It could also be the venue had multiple B projectors or maybe the big one was damaged at some point and they didn't need anything bigger than the 4000 ish so it was cheaper to get the small one?

The large module shipped with close to a dozen adapters to accommodate various brands and models of film lamps since that's what was available in the early days. I believe the range was 3000w to 7000. The adapters were never sold individually you had to buy them as a full kit so that was fun if say you were running 6500's and changed from Osram to Ushio, you needed different adapters. Even a 3000w bulb for one of these was physically a fairly large lamp.

The small module had a smaller reflector that was better optimized for the 2000-4000w lamps that the 19 and 23 supported. This module only has a single cathode adapter like thing and it only fits the Barco C form factor lamps so 1200-4000. A nice thing about those is those are a standard form factor at least between the major brands so you can swap between an Ushio and Osram without having to mess with adapters and worry about cable length and lug size like could be an issue with the big setup.

And note this is just the physical fit part of things. You would have to look and see what is supported in the software. In theory you could put a 1200 in a small lamphouse and stick that in a 32b but I don't think the software will let you select a lamp that small. And the obvious a big house in a 19b for sure won't give you the option to run a 7000. If you are swapping modules around you could also end up with a software mismatch on the lamp information module but that is easily corrected by re running the software update.

[Tj Hopland]

I don't believe there were adapters in the original 32 kits to use something like a 4000 DHP in the 32b lamphouse. 4000HS yes but that was a film lamp.

[Steve Guttag]

Some fun facts about Barco xenon projectors.

Their ballast is rated at 2400-watts. So, when a projector has one, it can run up to 2400-watts. This is why a DP2K-12C can run a 2200 lamp originally designed for the DP2K-10S. This is also why a DP2K-15C needs two power supplies in order to accommodate a 3000-watt lamp.

The difference between a DP2K-15C and a DP2K-20C...nothing...just the SIM card not offering the 4K lamps and, effectively, putting a governor on the maximum power.
The difference between a DPxK-19B and a DPxK-23B...nothing (see above). They also have two power supplies so they could run 4800-watts.

All B lamphouses can cross pollinate between the DPxK-19/23/32 projectors. The larger one, the XL can run both the larger digital lamps and manny "sc" style "film" lamps as its design was for the transition (e.g. DP100/DP90) and film lamps were more prevalent. I have a site running a UXL-20SC for 2D and DXL-60BA/L for 3D (separate XL lamphouses). The UXL-20SC, 25SC, 30SC really work with that reflector/optics system.

My suspicion is that a DP2K-23B with a 4500-watt lamp will work just fine, providing the right lamp adapters are used to get the arc in the correct place. The projector's ballast can handle up to 4800-watts.

Wattage is a poor measure of luminance. Depending on the design of the lamp (arc size) and the reflector system, you'll get more or less light at the same wattage as a different lamp design. Different lamps are pressurized differently, which also will affect lumen output. Larger arc gaps are more inefficient. Typically, as wattage goes up, so does arc size so you get a point of diminishing returns for going to a larger lamp. What you will get is more heat, which doesn't help your cause.

If the lamp you want to use is not on the available list, you'll need to make a custom lamp file so it has the right parameters in it. Honestly, I'd be a bit surprised if Barco put a limit on the DPxK-23B at 4000-watts since it can go higher than that but I can't claim to have tried a 4500-watt in a DPxK-23B, myself.

Yes, you can run a DPxK-32B down to 1200-watts. While it has three ballasts (7200-watt capacity), they will go down far enough. I'm reasonably certain that I have done that one. I've done numerous systems with dual ballasts down to 1200-watts.

[Rick Cohen]

Surprisingly, I found the "Osram XBO 4500 W/DHP L" lamp under approved lamp list on the Barco website for the 23B.

https://www.barco.com/en/product/dp2k-23b

[Marco Giustini]

I have a feeling that if you run that lamp at maximum, the 23B will only deliver 4000W. They approved it as "you can use it if you really want, won't damage anything" but might not be the best choice. Also as Steve say, Wattage is not necessarily an indication of brightness. Some brands also degrade faster than others.

[Marcel Birgelen]

What Marco said.

We've been running a DP4K-23B for quite a few years now in our screening room. It's now our backup and color-grading machine. While you could potentially install a bigger lamp than 4kW, if it fits in the lamp house at all, it will not deliver more than those 4kW. I guess that specific OSRAM lamp meets the physical requirements. Could they go to 4.5kW? Most likely yes, I don't think that those 500 extra Watts would make all the difference, but I guess it's what you paid for.

Also, our experience with OSRAM lamps has been mediocre at best, we've been Ushio for years now, without any issues. We haven't had a single lamp that didn't make it to warranty hours.

We're currently running it with 3kW bulbs, which is more than sufficient given our screen size, even with HC lenses. Initially, we ran on OSRAM 2.2kW lamps, later 3kW, as indicated, we had quite a few stability issues with those lamps.

[Steve Guttag]

Oh...I think i'd take that "action." I think the projector would allow more than 4,000-watts. As I mentioned, it can go to 4,800-watts. It all depends on what is in the lamp file for max wattage and if they have a designated lamp for a 4500-watt, I'd be surprised if it didn't do it. In fact, I seem to recall some 4KW lamps being rated at 4,200 watts and the 23B (or 20C) would run up to 4200-watts.

Looking inside of the lamp file for the Osram XBO 4500W/DHP-L:

[general]
description=OSRAM(R) XBO 4500W/DHP L
article number=R9802523
version=1
[power]
power=4500
nominal power=4500
minimum power=3150
maximum power=4500
[current]
nominal current=140
minimum current=105
maximum current=145
[voltage]
maximum voltage=39
[run time]
maximum run time=4680000
run time message=4572000
run time warning=4680000
run time shutdown=46800000


It allows for 4500-watts of power and the range from 3150-4500 within the current constraints too. It would appear that it is warranted to 1300-hours too.

[Marcel Birgelen]

What's in the lamp file matches the public specifications of that very bulb. If I'd one of those OSRAM bulbs lying around I'd even gladly try, but I'm not going to buy a shitty OSRAM bulb just to prove an argument.

Ushio has 4500W bulbs too for Barco, but only for the DP-90/100, DP-3000. and DP4K‑32B...

[Christos Gartaganis]

Oh...I think i'd take that "action." I think the projector would allow more than 4,000-watts. As I mentioned, it can go to 4,800-watts. It all depends on what is in the lamp file for max wattage and if they have a designated lamp for a 4500-watt, I'd be surprised if it didn't do it. In fact, I seem to recall some 4KW lamps being rated at 4,200 watts and the 23B (or 20C) would run up to 4200-watts.

Looking inside of the lamp file for the Osram XBO 4500W/DHP-L:

[general]
description=OSRAM(R) XBO 4500W/DHP L
article number=R9802523
version=1
[power]
power=4500
nominal power=4500
minimum power=3150
maximum power=4500
[current]
nominal current=140
minimum current=105
maximum current=145
[voltage]
maximum voltage=39
[run time]
maximum run time=4680000
run time message=4572000
run time warning=4680000
run time shutdown=46800000


It allows for 4500-watts of power and the range from 3150-4500 within the current constraints too. It would appear that it is warranted to 1300-hours too.

Is it possible to edit an existing lamp file and create a custom file that will work with the Barco S2 projectors?

[Marcel Birgelen]

You can create custom lamp files for lamps that don't match any of the specifications. Before Barco approved the PlusRite lamps for example, you could just add the lamp files they provided if you wanted to use them. If you're rolling your own, it's obviously entirely up to you to get those specifications right. Also, the projector obviously also won't "grow" any extra features, like an extra ballast, only because you try to illuminate a 6,5kW lamp in a machine maxing out at around 4kW. (Even though that lamp probably won't fit in the lamp house anyway...)

[Steve Guttag]

You can use an existing lamp file as a starting point but you can't merely edit a file and then re-send it to the projector, edited.

There is a special mode to create a lamp file, from scratch but since it's activation is not published (and don't DM me because I have too many NDAs to start blabbing about stuff). However, you don't need the wizard.

All custom lamps start with R109 and have 7 digits after that. So, R1090000000 should be a valid custom lamp. The number should be in the name and the article number in the file. Everything else you can do as you please. Remember, it will be logged. So, if you are using a custom lamp, you won't be able to throw that at either Barco or the lamp manufacturer for a warranty claim. This is a "at your own risk" situation.

[Steve Guttag]

Correction, custom lamps start with R103