Evaluating used equipment for a planned microcinema

[Stefan Scholz]

What Marco is writing is true, but applies to both brands. Sealed DMD, not possible to clean, at least using "on site" methods. Requires a specialized company in a workshop.
Reflectors degrade, integrator rods do. The light output decreases over time.
And both models are End of Life products, but so afair not End of service. Service will discontinue within a forseeable time.
Maybe you are lucky to keep it going for a prolonged time? And than save for a new, current model and current integrated media player/ server. All system components will fail in the years to come, we do not know when.
I have had recent service calls, where I was asked to do the Sony machines, 515 with 11 and last 2 digit serial numbers. Japan, first batch delivered. Early learning curve. We encountered contact issues after service, security wouldn't activate. Reseating connectors helped.
So the idea, replace 2013 Sony 500 series with "used, but still good after 33500 hours" 2210 and Show Vault servers from the same vintage. I did not really feel, this to be a good idea. In this case save the efforts now, save the money and buy something current in 2 or 3 years.

[Marco Giustini]

I've seen an NEC with contaminated DMD's but not a Barco. The NEC had been abused though (covered in drywall dust).

The bottom line is: expect optical performance to be degraded after 25K hours - on any projector NEC and Barco have sealed optics so less prone to severe degradation (Try 25K on a Christie with poor maintenance and we'll see!) but it's still 25K hours.

Given that you already start with poor contrast ratio...

I am not trying to be negative here, just making sure you understand your expectations. Plenty of cinemas with S10s and NC900 with substandard picture quality.

[Leo Enticknap]

Leo, is that a certain location I am familiar with?

I was wondering how long it would take you to ask that question!

Coincidentally, given the exchange between Marco and Sfefan above, the SP4K's predecessor on that shelf was a DP2K-10S (which in 2018 replaced the Christie that I would guess was there when you left). The upgrade happened because a prof demanded 4K. The 10S was then sold to a residence theater in Pacific Palisades, where it gave just under a year of trouble free service before being reduced to a blob of molten steel and plastic on January 7, 2025. The shelf did provide significant clearance above, such that if I'd needed to replace its light engine, I could likely have done it with the 10S in situ; but I can't bring myself to express any regret that I never had to! When the decision was made to replace it with the SP4K, we measured the height and established that it would just fit, and the school's facilities department determined that there was no weight problem. I did warn everyone at the time that if any repair had to be done beyond swapping out the ICMP-X or SMPS, it would likely require riggers to take the projector down from the shelf; and in the event, that did turn out to be necessary.

In terms of sightlines, that location is as optimal as is possible for that booth, given the location of the portholes. It is pretty much dead center on the X axis, and the lens is only a few inches above on the Y. So there is almost no keystone. If the 35mm projectors were removed and the SP4K took the place of one of them, we could get the Y spot on through the use of leveling feet and maybe a pedestal riser, but the X would be significantly off, which would create some trapezoid distortion. But IMHO, that would be a price worth paying for serviceability and getting rid of the safety issues created by the SP4K being in its current location.

[Tony Bandiera Jr]

I was wondering how long it would take you to ask that question!

Coincidentally, given the exchange between Marco and Sfefan above, the SP4K's predecessor on that shelf was a DP2K-10S (which in 2018 replaced the Christie that I would guess was there when you left). The upgrade happened because a prof demanded 4K. The 10S was then sold to a residence theater in Pacific Palisades, where it gave just under a year of trouble free service before being reduced to a blob of molten steel and plastic on January 7, 2025. The shelf did provide significant clearance above, such that if I'd needed to replace its light engine, I could likely have done it with the 10S in situ; but I can't bring myself to express any regret that I never had to! When the decision was made to replace it with the SP4K, we measured the height and established that it would just fit, and the school's facilities department determined that there was no weight problem. I did warn everyone at the time that if any repair had to be done beyond swapping out the ICMP-X or SMPS, it would likely require riggers to take the projector down from the shelf; and in the event, that did turn out to be necessary.

In terms of sightlines, that location is as optimal as is possible for that booth, given the location of the portholes. It is pretty much dead center on the X axis, and the lens is only a few inches above on the Y. So there is almost no keystone. If the 35mm projectors were removed and the SP4K took the place of one of them, we could get the Y spot on through the use of leveling feet and maybe a pedestal riser, but the X would be significantly off, which would create some trapezoid distortion. But IMHO, that would be a price worth paying for serviceability and getting rid of the safety issues created by the SP4K being in its current location.

Yeah it took a while for me to get back, I've been swamped with maintenance projects here at the homestead and helping a local business install a multi zone mini split. So much for being retired.

Dave Tidball from Valley Theatrical did that shelf install and he designed it for up to 300lbs on purpose, as I told him the tiny DLP they started with was temporary and we would end up with the CP2210. (I wish I could have bought that from you guys when you swapped it out.) Kinda bummed the film program isn't using the 35mm anymore, but not too surprised, no one there wanted to train on them. The "other room" was pretty much the same story but it has it's own issues. Did you ever talk them into a D Cinema system for that other room? They used to do a lot of studio sneaks there and I tried to get that switched over at the same time I did the room shown here, but since that room was used by almost every other department, they were fighting over who would cover (and how much each department had to cover) of the cost.

Thank you for saying the sightlines are as optimal as possible, I spent a lot of hours fussing to get it right and was still very unhappy about how it ended up. I did have the objective of sizing the screen so that the field of view for a film image at 1:85 or Scope was the same field you got in the big room. A visiting director who I met a few times there said I did manage to hit that target, and he loved how much better the sound was in the smaller room. But the faculty liked it and I had no complaints from them. As for the DLP/Cinema, I deliberately tried to get it as close to dead center as possible since that first DLP only machine (you are familiar with it) had limited adjustments for keystone, etc. They still liked the image it produced, but I (and a few others) could see the rainbow effects from the color wheel. At the time the Christie went in, I was trained on that brand and line, and had great support from them so that's why it was there.

I miss the work I did there, I got to see some really great foreign films (sort of, given I was doing changeovers and handling film), and the staff was great to work for. The politics of getting anything done there was frustrating though.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I've seen an NEC with contaminated DMD's but not a Barco. The NEC had been abused though (covered in drywall dust).

The bottom line is: expect optical performance to be degraded after 25K hours - on any projector NEC and Barco have sealed optics so less prone to severe degradation (Try 25K on a Christie with poor maintenance and we'll see!) but it's still 25K hours.

Given that you already start with poor contrast ratio...

I am not trying to be negative here, just making sure you understand your expectations. Plenty of cinemas with S10s and NC900 with substandard picture quality.

Marco,

Back when I installed a bunch of brand new NC-3400 4K projectors, the majority of them had contaminated DMD's, and the majority of them had gobs of black spots on screen. I had to replace 9 light engines amongst the 15 projectors. But these were literally among the first batch of 4K projectors they shipped. Never happened again after that first episode.

[Marcel Birgelen]

I can only agree with everything said before. I still have PTSD from the one Barco 6E I was forced to install in a "cabinet" style booth. I mean, at least it was accessible from floor level. But adjusting anything was a big PIA. Anno 2016...

What struck me even more in that room is that this room apparently has custom-built seats... I don't think I've never seen something like that before....

[Tim Reed]

Are you going to be able to meet your fixed expenses with only 50 seats? You don't want to under-build.

[Steve Kraus]

Too bad you are so far. I have a 48 seat screening room in Chicago in an office building which was recently sold and the new owner is converting it to residential. I don't know anything yet so maybe they'd like it as a tenant amenity. Otherwise it's all for sale. NEC1200C, Dolby DSS200, Twin Simplex film projectors (for changeover film projection), JBL speakers, QSC amps. IF it goes up for sale (probably) it's like instant screening room; just add water.

[Ari Herman]

Too bad you are so far. I have a 48 seat screening room in Chicago in an office building which was recently sold and the new owner is converting it to residential. I don't know anything yet so maybe they'd like it as a tenant amenity. Otherwise it's all for sale. NEC1200C, Dolby DSS200, Twin Simplex film projectors (for changeover film projection), JBL speakers, QSC amps. IF it goes up for sale (probably) it's like instant screening room; just add water.

Thanks for the thought! I have actually gotten pretty lucky with places nearby closing or upgrading equipment. Seems like everyone just wants their old equipment to find a good home and not be junked.

[Ari Herman]

Are you going to be able to meet your fixed expenses with only 50 seats? You don't want to under-build.

This 48-seater has been in business for 6+ years and plays just about the coolest stuff you can find anywhere. But to answer your question directly...I'm not sure. I think that most shows will sell <50 tickets, and so having only 50 seats is an advantage, since it means the space won't feel uncomfortably empty. On the other hand, it caps the revenue that is possible for popular shows. I'm not sure what to do about that, but I might consider bringing in some temporary furniture for high demand shows. There are other reasons I am going for the small size. I was able to get 50 theater seats for free, and it won't be easy to buy additional ones that match, since they are no longer being made. Also, 50 people is the max capacity when it comes to certain building codes, or so I've heard.