Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Questions about unions (Page 5)

 
This topic comprises 8 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8 
 
Author Topic: Questions about unions
Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 10-04-2001 12:24 AM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey, years ago I ran a ten screen theater that had five booths....i could perform build ups and tear downs without any needed help....now I run a ten screen with one booth and still can do all the other work needed without any help.....as far as unions I have no real coment other than I have been doing this work since 1984 and I love doing it without the worries of union dues and contract renewels....

 |  IP: Logged

John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-04-2001 12:26 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Will;

I'm pretty sure the idea of operators not bringing prints up to the booth has faded. The same idea applied to auto-workers: "Some guy gets $20 an hour to mearly insert the cig lighter on the assembly line all day!" I'm sure it has happended, but I don't think this is the way unions currently want to operate. They know owners could choose not to renew contracts, and are interested in getting the dead wood out. Remember though, by law they can't just throw people out, and older guys willing to learn should be helped understanding new technology. So it will take some time.

On the other side of the coin; the company I work for recently opened a theater in Chicago, with union operators. After looking at some paperwork, I think they may actually save us money. We have to send service people constantly to fix simple little things in non-union booths because no one knows even simple mainteince. In Chicago , these guys are good; even the regular operators know how to hook up and use an R2 unit.

If you have a smaller multiplex, you could probably do without a union guy. But if you want consistant high quality in a large megaplex, you would almost *have* to ask for union help.

 |  IP: Logged

Gerard S. Cohen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 975
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 07-21-2002 10:44 PM      Profile for Gerard S. Cohen   Email Gerard S. Cohen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

I'm bumping this topic up to the top because the downturn in the economy, the collapse of corporations like Enron and WorldCom, the bankruptcies of theatre corporations and the revelation of the dissemination of misinformation by corporate executives and other forms of corporate corruption, may cause some of us to review and rethink the reasons unions are formed and why they may be needed today.

Do we really want to leave decisions such as the wages we are paid, the security of our jobs, the provisions for health care and pensions for our advanced years,solely in the hands of corporate executives?

Do we really believe that supply and demand work in our favor, and that employers will voluntarily pay high wages for skilled full-time employees, when they have the alternative of hiring part-time teenagers without benefits?

Are we willing to disenfranchise ourselves from sharing in the determination of our working conditions, qualifications, vacations, contractual benefits and opportunities for advancement?

Are we so taken in by the myth of "rugged individualism" that we see no need to band together as craft unionists to influence legislation on behalf of working men and women, using our rights and obligations as workers and citizens to provide for our families' futures?

 |  IP: Logged

Bob Koch
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 183
From: williams ca
Registered: Nov 2001


 - posted 07-21-2002 11:25 PM      Profile for Bob Koch   Email Bob Koch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ken:
You state "I love being a manager"; this says it all.
I don`t believe you can comprehend the union booth of yesteryear. They did`nt hire you off the street, you never served a pizza, you never tore a ticket and you never entertained any thoughts about being a "manager". In exchange you were paid a salary which would permit you to ,buy a home, send your children to school and be a functioning member of the community. You did`nt live under a drawbridge west of town. The fascination of working in a projection room has the same magnetic draw as when I was a boy. "Film done right" is not new. I`m 80 yrs old now and I`m only trying to point out to you how much better it was for me when I was your age. Lest you think I`m speaking as an old goat who spent his life next to his coffeemaker in the old Fox Theatre somewhere; most of my working life was spent as a "tech", as the new breed prefers to call them now, with RCA Altec Dolby and Lucasfilm TAP. My interests still lie in the projection room, otherwise why would I be responding to you now
Best Wishes
Bob Koch

 |  IP: Logged

Peter Dougherty
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Maspeth, NY, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 07-22-2002 01:17 AM      Profile for Peter Dougherty   Author's Homepage   Email Peter Dougherty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In the late 70s I got my first full-time job as an usher at the Canadian Odeon York Cinema in Toronto. As a huge movie buff growing up, it was a dream job for this 17 year old. One of my first duties was on payday--it was my job to take the projectionist's paycheque up to the booth (either that or change out 50# CO2 canisters). The cheques in that theatre didn't come in envelopes.

I looked at mine, and I looked at Phil's...

Long story made short, I was licensed in 1981 and worked "permit" for 2 years in a carbon/changeover house before joining local 173 in 1983. Happiest day of my young life. Although I never did the full apprenticeship that many of my colleagues did, I always learned as much as I could -- thanks for everything Gord, Rick and Rick Jr....

When I saw the writing on the wall in 1996 and '97 I decided to try my hand at some other careers. Projection was clearly on the way out, and I'm pretty darned good with computers and electronics, so I ventured out and became a network administrator, finally taking a withdrawal card in December '99. I believed that unions in exhibition were a waste, un-necessary and had outlived their usefullness.

When I moved to New York City in 2000 I was secure in my "knowledge" that unions were the ruin of places like NYC, where an illiterate subway cleaner can make $30 an hour. I was skilled. I earned the knowledge necessary to make me enough money until I chose to retire early.

But a few funny--and not so funny--things happened on the way to that retirement party. I started to read Film-Tech and saw that the art of projection wasn't nearly as dead as I'd been led to believe. That union--and non-union--projectionists still had some love for their craft and it wasn't ALL 16-year-old popcorn shovelers and 20something grunge-loving-ADD-riddled punks from the "whatever" generation running shows. There were still some talented pros out there doing that job I'd given up for dead.

Things changed rather dramatically for workers in New York City since I moved here. First the dotcom bust, and then a certain sunny Tuesday morning last September. All of a sudden $60k network admin jobs didn't exist any more. 800+ resumes to tech firms yielded a handful of interviews and few part-time contracts. All the while, my union-employed wife smiled her little "I Told You So" smile.

And every time I went to the movies in those days of working outside the industry, I kept wanting to sneak upstairs and beg to thread up and run just one last show; to make up a print; to time a platter, replace a bulb, help with an A-chain or B-chain alignment. But no, it was my job to pay the money and watch the scratched/jittery/dirty show. At least until I built my THX 6.1 home theatre.

So now faced with an uncertain future in the neo-conservative world of the "rugged individualist,"--indeed the world of the Worldcoms and Enrons, my love of the job is pointing me back to the booth once more.

I hope to carry a card for Local 306 here in the City at some point, and to help re-live those grand days at the Kingsway and the Showcase; the relief list and the smell of popcorn wafting through the booth.

I don't know if Gerald's hope of us influencing legislation will ever come about again, at least outside of New York City...the rest of the country is so rabidly anti-union as to make that premise untennable politically. Perhaps the best we can hope for is to provide a service with *trained professionals* that employers will WANT to call upon and pay a fair wage for. Maybe, too, we'll seek out better training and opportunities for ourselves and try to co-operate with employers in making us more knowledgeable of current and new technologies.

If the unions fail to weed out the dead wood from their ranks; if they fail to learn, master and test themselves on the newest technologies; if they fail to show up on time; if they fail to do what's asked of them by the employers, then they will surely fail their employers and this craft will doom itself into oblivion. Is there a role for projectionists' unions today? Yes. Are the members serving that role? That's the question everyone must ask themselves.

------------------
Cheers,
PJ Dougherty

W2IRT

 |  IP: Logged

Carl King
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 199
From: Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-22-2002 12:08 PM      Profile for Carl King   Email Carl King   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
some of you mention that unions bargain for health plans and other benefits. Well, I was in an IATSE union for over 30 yrs and had no health plan or any other benefit other than pension. Now that we have tossed out the union things have changed for the better. even those employees who were against tossing out the union are happy with the current situation. My only regret is not doing it 30 yrs ago

 |  IP: Logged

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-22-2002 02:51 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Carl if your local didn't have a health plan that was its own fault. The health plan is set up byu the local as a trust who pays for it is negociated

 |  IP: Logged

Gerard S. Cohen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 975
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 07-29-2002 10:00 PM      Profile for Gerard S. Cohen   Email Gerard S. Cohen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

"Once more, unto the breach, dear friends..."

Bumping this thread up to the top in response to German's question about payment, and Brad's comments, in Film-Yak...

Gerard


 |  IP: Logged

Peter Hall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: London, UK
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 07-30-2002 10:44 AM      Profile for Peter Hall   Author's Homepage   Email Peter Hall   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Re the debate about who carries the films to the booth, doesn
't this against any pro union doctorine that one could moot. Surely the key principle of any union is to group together and work towards the collective good. How the hell can you say that getting the (lower paid) floor staff to carry the tins instead of the operators is for the common good ? How wide does "common good" stretch - or is it a "us and them" situation vs the floor staff ? Any union insisting that their members shouldn't do a shitty job in favour of the members of some other union doing it (or worse, employees on a lower echelon with no union support) is surely as guilty of treating workers as badly as the management who should've put in an elevator in the first place..

Had mixed experieces with projectionist unions. In my native NZ, in the mid 1980s, we had a government in force who insisted that every worker was a member of a union. You could opt out on moral grounds but you still had to pay union fees to a charity (few did). To run a cinema you had to be a paid up member of the projectionist union, who insisted that (even in 1988 with full automation and platters) there was one operator per screen. In 1984 Mid City, a 4 plex fully automated and with one booth, opened with four operators on at a time - needless to say they got bored, pissed each other off and rather than look at realistic manning levels the union suggested that the cinema owner install a pool table (they did !).

The projectionist union also controlled the flim exchanges, so any house without paid up operators would mysteriously find their films arriving late or with a missing reel. On the positive side, the projectionist union was a driving force behind the two year mandatory training scheme, which required each operator to take formal courses in electrical practice, sound and film and projector maintainence. I look back on my training notes and have yet to see a more comprehensive training program - it was slow though - in theory you could work in the booth for a full year without ever lacing up a machine. I was fortunate - after 3 months I was allowed to clean the carbon dust from the Peerless'. (NZ was behind the times technically - carbon arcs and 2000' spools were the norm in even the 1980s - I guess the chains thought that there would be no advantage of platters when the "one man per screen" rule was in place). We installed the first platter in Auckland City in 1982, only to be met from a barrage of suspicion and criticism.

NZ is like anywhere else now - 12 screens and one kid runnign them.. Ho hum

 |  IP: Logged

Gerard S. Cohen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 975
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 07-30-2002 11:28 AM      Profile for Gerard S. Cohen   Email Gerard S. Cohen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Peter:

As one who has had three surgical operations to correct hernias,
I am grateful that IATSE Local 306 rules relieved projectionists of the work of delivering film cans to and from the booths.

This task was usually performed by the theatre "porter", a robust
individual with stronger abdominal muscles who typically belonged to another union, complete with benefits, and often worked many years for the same theatre or chain. I remember with chagrin the day his employment ended, when the chain contracted a group of non-union Chinese of doubtful immigration status, whose brief tenure saw a replacement by a group from Mexico. The condition of the theatre did not benefit by any possible savings that may have accrued to the chain.

Unions struggle for the rights and benefits of their workers, who are addressed as "Brother Jones" or "Sister Brown" at meetings.
Membership typically requires citizenship and an age of maturity (21). The International Alliance of Theatrical and Stage Employees was formed as a craft union, but as the Americal Federation of Labor merged with the Congress of Industrial Organizations, the combined brotherhood has expanded to include skilled, semi-skilled, and "unskilled" unions of workers.

Theaters should be designed for the movement of prints as well as people, and managements should use personnel effectively to traffic films as efficiently as audiences. Dumbwaiters, block and tackle and hand-carry have been replaced by freight elevators in some modern theatres.
And floor staff, when composed of steady employees seeking to improve their wages, advancement opportunities and benefits, are free to form their own unions. The IATSE has expanded to include ground floor locals, and the drive continues.

Gerard


 |  IP: Logged

Steve Anderson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 168
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 07-30-2002 12:31 PM      Profile for Steve Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Steve Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would like to tell you about my experience with unions. I worked for a 27-screen theater in the south. …First six months we had three people strictly in the booth to run the shows/make-up/break-down and do general maintenance. After 6 months it was dropped to two people. One month later my scheduled was, arrive at theater 30 minutes before first set of movies to start and then thread and start all 27 projectors. Then someone else would come in just as the first features were dropping. I did not mind the threading…but some days you would come in and have to move 3 to 7 prints around. We all got tired of this and contacted a union rep out of Florida (Miami) We voted to have union representation …we waited and waited, the union rep kept telling us a contract was around the corner.
The theater owner sent us letters basically stating they would not honor the union and that there will be no union at this theater. The union tried to put us in a local stagehand union …they wanted no part of us. (Brother or sister)
Everyone soon left, and now I help manage a small two screen movie theater (beer/burgers/ and first run features) I love being the projectionist, technician, usher, concession and box office worker. Everyday is something different. I also carry the cans up to the booth. (I let the young guys carry those 50lb bags of popcorn up to the stock room)

 |  IP: Logged

Gerard S. Cohen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 975
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 07-30-2002 01:12 PM      Profile for Gerard S. Cohen   Email Gerard S. Cohen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

Steve,
I'm sorry to hear of your unconscionable treatment by management and
union in Tennessee! Is TN a [cruely labeled] "right to work" anti-union state? By steering you to a stagehands union, it sounds like there was no projectionists union covering that area at the time. And that union negociations with management failed through union weakness versus management strength. The U.S. Department of Labor has been drastically weakened by recent and present administrations,
and neglects to follow up on violations of the remaining federal labor laws protecting the right to organize and for collective bargaining. That 27-plex house of horrors is an example of the worst
of 'Labor done wrong'.

Reducing the number of operators from three to one at start-up sounds like a classic management speed-up technique used as punishment. In
a stronger legal environment you'd have a good case against management, but unless the Labor and Justice Departments provide support, managements in states where anti-union forces succeed, can deprive workers of their constitutional rights.

Gerard

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Anderson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 168
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 07-30-2002 01:58 PM      Profile for Steve Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Steve Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tennessee is a right to work state. Back in the mid 70's I worked at a local television station ( owned by General Electric ) I was a member of NABET and we were the only union station in town. It was a good shop to be a member of...so I have seen the productive side of unions.


 |  IP: Logged

Gerard S. Cohen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 975
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 07-30-2002 05:48 PM      Profile for Gerard S. Cohen   Email Gerard S. Cohen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

"In Union there is Strength." But that strength depends uopn the numbers of members, and their abilities and willingness to sacrifice
to form, maintain and defend the union and its principles.

The earliest organizers in America faced goon squads, depuity sheriffs
and even militias with tear gas and guns to achieve the right to organize, under the Bill of Rights freedom of assembly and right to petition for relief of grievances. They achieved the rights to organize and collectively bargain on contracts. But their supreme weapon was the right to withhold their labor via the strike. And the leaders risked beatings and jailings to achieve their goals.

Later generations took for granted the achievements of their elders and were unwilling to sacrifice to defend their gains. Some few leaders became corrupt and sold out their constituents, making deals with employers and politicians; others grew too soft to fight the growing strength of the opposition.

Any organization is only as good as its members and the leaders who grow from their ranks. I still belong to one honest, idealistic union still growing strong, completely democratic, in which I have participated for decades as chapter chairman, picket captain and Assembly delegate. I have also belonged to a union that was undemocratic, demogogic, and weak....among other unflattering aspects.
)
"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in the stars,
But in Ourselves, that we are underlings..."--W.S.

Gerard


 |  IP: Logged

Mike Babb
Master Film Handler

Posts: 250
From: Norwich UK
Registered: Jul 2002


 - posted 07-30-2002 07:32 PM      Profile for Mike Babb   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Babb   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm curious what people think of the comparison between projection unions and the baseball players union. People seem to be up in arms over the fact that there might be a bb strike, and they won't tolerate a lesser quality of player no matter which side they are on. Have theater customers mostly settled for less?

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 8 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.