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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Film Handling Done Very Very Right (Page 3)

 
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Author Topic: Film Handling Done Very Very Right
Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-30-2001 02:08 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I really like John P.'s suggestion to check the edge ID numbers. I didn't realize that these were unique to each lab roll. This could be a very useful fact to know in the future.

Unfortunately, this doesn't help with features printed on non-Kodak stock, nor does it help with older prints, which, sadly, are the ones which are most likely to have been abused.

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 11-30-2001 02:49 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad,

I think your idea could possibly work if everyone in the booth is as anal as most people here. But let's face it, most aren't. Unfortunately, at most theaters is just wouldn't fly. No one at my theater cares about film that much, as made evident by the fact that they still use whiteout on the film even though I told them not to and threw all the whiteout away!! (I guess they have a stash someewhere.) So do you think they're going to take the time to match up soundtracks when breaking down?

J.P.: I don't understand why it would cost more to print one more frame.

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 11-30-2001 02:51 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mathew,

I absolutely agree with you! When I became a projectionist I was teached to keep 2 black frames for each side of reel to "preserve" the print.
However I didn't want that my customers saw 4 black frames between reels so that other projectionist can freely chop away up to 4 frames without damaging the print.
So I decided for HALF frame for reel: in this way I have ONE black frame where I put a little sticker with number of reels.

I saw a movie in a theater with at least 20/30 black frames between reels...

Bye
Antonio

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-30-2001 03:08 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Ken, you might want to go back and re-read this thread over the last 24 hours, for you seem to have skimmed over some of the details of my post and John's post. My advice above was not to be used when breaking down a print. Why anyone would actually need to do that is beyond me, for whoever built the print SHOULD have labeled the leader/reels properly. That being taken into account, so long as the projectionists can count backwards, they can break a print down without the need for ID frames. The only time a possible need for ID frames comes into play would be for the next person building it, and that's what my tips above were for. As to your careless operators, put a stop to their practices or fire them. There is no excuse for such poor film handling and since you are a booth trainer, there is no excuse for you not having enough authority to be able to get them to do things right.

Why does it cost more to print one extra frame? Because the lab has to make a duplicate of that frame. It's not just a matter of 4 extra perforations of raw stock. John explained it earlier.

Hey John, what a great idea looking for the edgecode. Wish I would've thought of that about 2:34AM earlier today.


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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 11-30-2001 03:13 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad,

Unfortunately, some of the operators at my theater also use zebra tape when reparing mid-reel damage. Grrrr..... You can only imagine my frustration when breaking down, and thus my need for ID frames. I'm pretty sure I have ranted about this on another thread.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-30-2001 03:14 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Zebra tape is not necessary for anything in a professional booth. Why do they even have it? A much better solution is for you to train them so that they do not need it.

And why are you having mid-reel damage?

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 11-30-2001 03:18 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Brad, am I going crazy, or did you ad to your last post since you originally posted it? I agree that I SHOULD have enough authority to have final say as to what goes on in the booth, but unfortunately I don't. I certainly can't fire anyone. (No assistant manager, which I am, can) Sometimes I don't even feel like a booth manager, and it really pisses me off, but I'm not going to rant about that here.


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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 11-30-2001 03:20 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Why do I have mid reel damage? Did you ever hear of lab splices and brainwraps?

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 11-30-2001 03:23 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One more note: they don't listen to me and my GM seems to think floor operations take precidence (spelling?) over the booth. One more reason I hate the idea of manager operators. I'm working on it, though. It's gonna take some time, but eventually I am going to get things the way they are supposed to be.


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Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 11-30-2001 04:13 PM      Profile for Dave Bird   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What exactly IS the purpose of zebra-tape (I really don't know)? I ordered splicing tape once, and that's what I got, a whole stack of it! Obviously, film needs to be spliced straight, but all I can think that the lines are any good for is CENTREING the tape over the splice, and really, who needs help with that? Or is there another function?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-30-2001 05:00 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Judging by the timing of our posts, it appears we were both on the forums replying to each other at the same time. If after I post I realize that my wording was unclear, or I feel I needed to elaborate, I just edit the post instead of keep making post after post as followups. It's easy, just click the "edit" icon.

Lab splices? Of course, we all see them. Personally I HATE it when theaters cut them out with a tape splice, for there will always be a noticeable splice and jump there. Removing them with an ultrasonic splice is the only acceptable way in my book, but very few theaters are going to have access to one. In that instance, I would say just leave them in. They are NOT going to break and a quick flash (to me) is better than having a jump with an obvious tape splice. However, for those who absolutely insist that they must come out for whatever reason, there is no excuse for not using clear tape. Your situation sounds like a managerial problem of which you will just have to work through.

What is a brainwrap? I don't have those.

Dave, zebra tape is *supposed* to make breaking down a print easier because there are yellow lines at the splice. I've never been able to see a zebra splice come flying off of a platter during breakdown, but I've never missed *feeling* for a tape splice, clear or not. The ridiculous part is that most people who use zebra tape use the alternating section where the yellow line goes across the frameline. While this may be fine for flat films, it looks horrible on scope films and will disrupt at least one of the audio tracks. It's just a stupid idea in my book. Every professional operator I know uses clear tape exclusively.


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Nic Margherio
Film Handler

Posts: 91
From: St. Louis MO, USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 11-30-2001 05:14 PM      Profile for Nic Margherio   Email Nic Margherio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John Pytlak said:

"I recall someone also suggested replacing the Dolby "Double D" trademark symbol in some of the Dolby data blocks with the reel number. You would need a magnifier to read it, but it would be printed through the entire length of the reel."

Why not use the "interperfs" on the other side of the film? Is it because current printing/developing equipment cannot print there without modification? It seems to me to be the best solution to this; printing the reel number four times per frame throughout the entire reel, heads and tails included. It would also be large enough for most people to read without a magnifier.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-30-2001 05:40 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
If that is ever done, I would hope the reel number would be printed once every 4 perforations, so as to help give a guide with respect to framelines. For example, if the reel number happened to fall 2 perforations off of a known frame line nearby, then the operator could safely cut 2 perforations off and be in frame.

John, I'm sure the labs wouldn't want to keep stashes of specific film stock marked with specific reel numbers, but would such a thing be a possibility alongside the Kodak edgeprint?

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-01-2001 12:12 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just thinking about this... Yes, it's a high tech solution to a low tech problem but just for sake of scientific discussion...

But, aren't the reel numbers coded into the DTS and SDDS tracks on the film? (I don't know if they are in Dolby Digital.)
Wouldn't it be neat if a reader/decoder could be made and mounted to the workbench so that when the question of, "Which reel is this?", comes up all you have to do is pull a few feet of film through the thing and the reel number would be displayed?

OK, who's going to tell me that they already have those...

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Paul Harnden
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 107
From: Chandler, AZ, USA
Registered: Oct 2001


 - posted 12-01-2001 09:18 AM      Profile for Paul Harnden   Email Paul Harnden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ken,

In regards to your letter about your GM and managers not listening to you, I can tell you that I've been in the same boat. If stuff is messing up and the GM thinks the floor is more important, let stuff mess up. Let it get to the point where they're going to finally notice and that should help your argument on keeping people in the booth and off the floor.
As for the projectionists that you're having problems with threaten to kick them out or just go talk to the management. I was an assistant too and even though I had very little authority, I had authority nonetheless. If your management has a problem with it have a talk with them to straighten any conflicts there might be, also bring evidence of foul-ups and any breaches of company booth policies that the employees have commited. If your GM still won't listen, just one-up him and talk to your tech.

Paul

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