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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Hey you, you suck! (AKA: Outing bad film handlers) (Page 3)

 
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Author Topic: Hey you, you suck! (AKA: Outing bad film handlers)
Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 10-27-2002 10:28 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had it on 9/27 and 10/9. I seem to recall both prints were uncut.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-27-2002 10:47 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Heck, this movie hasn't even been released yet! Like Steve though, I played a print about 2-3 weeks ago for another screening and I think that one was new. In any event all signs point to this particular one having been plattered (sloppily I might add) at it's last destination. There were no other missing frames or appearance of a platter makeup/breakdown before.

Oh well, we know the TES staff reads these forums. The rep I called this one in to is probably having a snicker at this thread.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 10-27-2002 11:16 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When I started in this bussines 18 years ago we were required to send in an inspection report of each film we got to the film companies exchange office and to the film depot the film shipped out of.

Charges were incured on a theater that did not splice the leaders back on and if they were missing. If the reel was damaged enough to be unplayable like broken sprocket holes the theater was charged for that too, so much a foot per damaged reel.

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Heyward Garner
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 101
From: Winston-Salem, NC, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 10-27-2002 11:45 PM      Profile for Heyward Garner   Email Heyward Garner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad, going back to a comment made on page 2 of this thread...

[...make theaters that damage a print RESPONSIBLE, as in paying for the print. This way, as something like this turns up, if only one other theater had the print before, CHARGE THEM!]

Only one problem here... We actually had this occur over the summer, and it was a disaster! I cannot recall which film it was, but it was a TES print. For whatever reason, management had to use a "backup" prjectionist for two shifts over a weekend. The print came out SO BAD that we could not go a show without a large volume of complaints, so we called and "confessed". We were BILLED for the print, and sent a replacement. Only problem is, the replacement was sub run, and JUST AS BAD! So why did we bother, and why did we pay a fortune? I dunno...

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 10-28-2002 12:12 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just as a general purpose "outing" of a theater as a whole:

I cannot say I have ever seen "film done right" at this theater. There's always something. The frame line on "Hoop Dreams" from an improperly built print that was not checked, and seen after the film had been playing for a week. Dim projection quality. Their sole DTS machine doesn't even work anymore. I've seen lots of different meltdowns at this place, and even still on any kind of rare visit back to the place these days (usually when a date makes me take her there to see something that is only playing there).

In all, the place is run in a cost cutting extreme where the projection and sound equipment aren't even maintained anymore. Yet this place is still operating.

But I'm not sure which is worse, this theater in my town putting doing such a bad job or the people that are ignorant enough to keep paying for it. The Central Mall 12 across town shows just about all the same movies as this dump. It's not a great theater by any means, but the mall theater is new and isn't falling apart like this place. Apparantly enough people are visiting the Cache 8 to keep it open. Or perhaps Wallace Theaters has some way of using it as a tax shelter. I dunno.


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-28-2002 12:40 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Anybody want to go in with me on a Christmas gift for Bobby? (Don't tell him, but it's a year's free pass to the Cache 8.)

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 10-28-2002 09:19 AM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Cache 8? Do they also operate a 5-plex called the Pentium? And another venue called North Bridge? Let me guess: The nachos are called Chip Sets.


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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 10-28-2002 09:53 AM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've said this before, but that Wallace Cache 8 is very similar to the Carmike Century Cinema 8 in Decatur. They're both Fairlane/Litchfield style. The Carmike Century Cinema 8 in Decatur seldom has "Film Done Right". Once Regal installs adjustable masking in the Huntsville Regals, this Carmike 8 location will be in last place in my ratings.

Carmike has really neglected their Decatur location over the years. For a picture, I'll have to scan the Decatur Daily newspaper from December 6, 2001 and get the "Problems at the Movie House" and "Silver Screen Tarnish" headings next to the picture of the front of the theatre.

------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Information Site

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 10-28-2002 10:13 AM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maybe F-T needs a "Film Done Wrong" forum where lousy film handlers and crappy theaters can be outed and memorialized.

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 10-28-2002 10:32 AM      Profile for Michael Brown   Email Michael Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is something interesting.

I was runing this weeks Pearl and Dean add reel and during the first splice the film jumped out of a sproket at the top of the projector. (So the top loop was massive and the image appeared out of rack). I stopped the film. Wound on a bit, re-threaded and started again. Then next splice same problem.

I've just taken a look at the reel. I looked at the splices, they looked ok. They curved nicely ect. Then I took a close look. This is what it looked like. Seems that somehow the splices looked like they were cut without the tape on the sprocket holes being punched out.


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 10-28-2002 11:11 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Michael Brown wrote: "Seems that somehow the splices looked like they were cut without the tape on the sprocket holes being punched out"

Your sprocket teeth just aren't sharp enough!

Seriously, if the tape was not perforated, whoever made the splices likely did not even use a splicer to align and register the two films being joined. If so, it's no wonder that you lost the loops.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: here


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Tony Nitti
Film Handler

Posts: 2
From: Santa Monica, CA, USA
Registered: Jul 2002


 - posted 10-28-2002 01:56 PM      Profile for Tony Nitti   Email Tony Nitti   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Brad!

As I am assembling a new training program for 35mm film reviewers here at THX. These pictures are a great example of what can happen to film in real world. I plan on using them in the future, hopefully you don't have too many more of them. I was sorry to here about were it came from.

Later

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-28-2002 02:07 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I will be happy to send you the original picture files if you would like higher resolution shots for your class. Just let me know.

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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 10-28-2002 08:14 PM      Profile for Will Kutler   Email Will Kutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At the theater where I was employeed as a projectionist we regularly recieved very low serial number "studio prints". Most of the time we had the print for a promo or press release, and then the studios/distributors would demand that we tear down the print and send it back after we recieved a release print for the run. Doing all these build ups and tear downs was usually a time consuming pain in the WHAOO!!!

The "projectionists" who handled the prints REALLY SUCKED! Opaque splicing tape, mishandled heads and tails with an average of 3-5 frames spliced off, massive finger prints and Liquid Paper used to mark splices were the norm! Lord knows how much time I spend with Film-Guard, film cleaning pads and lens tissue cleaning that dammed Liquid Paper off several feet of film!

There is now excuse why prints cannot be carefully broken down and handled with care!! I did this on a regular basis and am freakin proud of my professionalism!!!!

Many of the Diredtors and Producers are clueless regarding film-handling and they REALLY SUCK. You know those letters that they insert with prints. I used to collect the "good" ones. I distinctly remember a very well known Director advocating the use of either opaque splicing tape of Liquid Paper (I forgot which) to mark splices...the dumbass!

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 10-28-2002 11:42 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You know, a lot of the blame for all this can be laid right at the feet of the distributor who doesn't seem to care what crap hole he plays his pictures in or what condition the print leaves those theatres. Maybe we need to go beyond ragging the distributor who seems to be both deaf and blind to any criticism. Maybe we need to send HYYS reports back to the producers and directors of these films and press upon them the disservice the distrib is doing buy looking the other way at these grind-houses. Surely the guys who put two years of their sweat into creating a film will be more attune to legitimate complaints about the dives their films are being shown in.

Hey Darryl....what as difference 18 years makes, eh?! 18 years ago the first run "Flagship Theatres" would get back-up prints from the distribs. Radio City Music Hall had prints specially struck that were not as dense as standard prints so that they could get more light to the screen without scorching the film. Times have changed.

I guess when you play off 3000 prints for the opening run and then when you come off the break all you need is 300 for sub runs, it means you've got 2700 extra prints lying around. It's not hard to see how the distrib isn't bothered that a bunch if prints come back without reel bands or with the leaders not spliced back the way we like.

It's the filmmaker himself that is the most concerned about what his picture looks like and sound like up on the screen; it's him we have to get too. Remember, the distributor never actually see the physical print. He never even TOUCHES celulloid. He orders prints from a lab, signs the orders for them to be sent to the shipping depot (TES or whoever) and then sends TES the order to have the prints sent to the individual theatres. The theatre sends them back to the depot. Right up to the time he signs the order to have x number of prints bansawed, he has been doing nothing but signing paper and giving orders. The prints are nothing but numbers to him. Also his account dept tells him what service to order for any particular inventory from the depot. He instructs TES on just what kind of "inspection service" he will buy for his inventory -- top level: all new reels and cans, full inspection, cleaning, repair; or perhaps midlevel, "stock" reels and cans (painted orange, of course) which basically are any used that are not falling apart. Then there's the cheapest service -- we all know that one by heart -- count the number of reels, make sure they all have film of some kind on them and then slap an Inspected By "Joanne" sticker on them. We know which service is most commonly chosen by the studios.

To expect them to sweat it when we call and say, this or that print number was really trashed by such and such theatre and it will look like crap when we play it here, I think is hoping for too much. They may agree to send us another print but half the time I think it is just to make us go away rather than because they even understand what chopping frames off at the leader joints means. But the FILMMAKER, now that's another story.

I always like telling the story of Robert Downey Sr., I told him that UA was refusing to book his film POUND because, as they put it, "It's out of service." He went ballistic; he yelled that he didn't make his movies so the &^%#$# suits at UA could tell theatres they were out of service. One irate call from him and UA sold it to me the next day FLAT and with gushing apologies.

Brad, send those pictures to the director and I bet it will ruffle feathers galore. Send pictures of the Princes II or the Wallace Cache 8 and I wouldn't be surprised if the filmmakers themselves refuse to let their distribs send their titles into those holes.

Frank

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