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Author Topic: Comments and Info on Robert Film Service Lamphouse / Reflector Upgrades Mark A. MacLellan Film Handler Posts: 23 From: Montreal, Quebec Registered: Jul 2003 posted 08-09-2003 12:48 AM                    Gord....did you happen to note the make/model of this lamp when you took the pictures?  |  IP: Logged Rick Long Jr Expert Film Handler Posts: 211 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Jul 2000 posted 08-11-2003 10:42 AM                     Mark, is your system in use at the Galaxy in Cambridge? If so, could you drop me an e-mail?  |  IP: Logged Larry Shaw Expert Film Handler Posts: 238 From: Boston, MA, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 08-18-2003 01:04 PM                        That looks exactly like a Kinoton reflector. Since Kinoton sold a large number of these to RFS it makes sense.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-29-2003 03:14 PM                     The other day i was at a theatre that was installing some new backlit poster cases made by a company called Technalight in Peterbourgh Ont. So I think registration of that name as a trade mark will be difficult [ 08-29-2003, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Gordon McLeod ]  |  IP: Logged Mark A. MacLellan Film Handler Posts: 23 From: Montreal, Quebec Registered: Jul 2003 posted 08-30-2003 10:33 PM                    Techni-Lite Systems Inc. manufactures sign-related materials. Technalight is a registered trademark in the US and Canada owned by RFS Inc. I really dislike people who don't check their facts.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-31-2003 04:42 PM                     I really dislike companies that make claims but can't back them up! Really now, I think RFS is making a fool out of themselves. If there is really a patent pending(which I doubt)then revealing how it works will not hurt them as they are protected, it will only give them the credibility they now lack. Mark @ CLACO  |  IP: Logged Mark A. MacLellan Film Handler Posts: 23 From: Montreal, Quebec Registered: Jul 2003 posted 08-31-2003 04:57 PM                    Well, what can I say? There is indeed a patent pending or I would not have said so, to do otherwise would be false. The nature of the patent application is such that the application is not published for 18 months. And as for credibility, I don't think RFS has anything to prove to anyone except those who are actually interested in purchasing the system or have already purchased it. Thus far, everyone's been more than satisfied. I did another install in Canada this past week and it was another 21 fL with unbelieveable resolution. The client seemed more than impressed and has already paid their bill so someone explain to me how that makes a fool out of RFS? As I said before, my only goal is to dispell myths and misconceptions. Bottom line is that despite the patent pending why should any details of how the system works be released? To what end? For what purpose or profit? To satisfy some "know-it-alls" on filmtech.com? That's a waste of time and effort.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-31-2003 05:50 PM                     Any patent application that is not publioshed is very prown to being tossed out by the courts at a later time if any prior art refutes it So far prior art I could see would be 1 Conversion of existing lamphouses well Kniesly LP associates Phillips all made conversion kits 2 Use of a coated glass reflector Well allmost all the top lamphouse use that 3 Laser alignment of the optical components was covered in Glen Bergen's work at ORC years ago and has been standard practice for years  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-01-2003 03:26 PM                     Mark M. said...... "To satisfy some "know-it-alls" on filmtech.com? That's a waste of time and effort." _________________________________________________________________ Mark, That statement I'm sure will be not taken lightly by anyone here on Film-Tech. Especially by those that put forth tremendous effort to keep this fine site available to all. So why do you "waste your time" here on Film-Tech? That seems pretty funny to alot of us. Please contribute something useful for a change in your upcomming posts. Why would it be a waste of time and effort to post the facts here? Isn't the goal of RFS to sell these conversions? If the information on the conversion and how it works(so we can sell them to our customers....da) were available on this site then RFS probably wouldn't be able to keep up with the demand. Be it known that many other much more important products have been announced on this site that today are highly sucessful. Mark, indeed, if I were the one in charge at RFS I would certainly curtail doing anything with you. Its begginning to get obvious to me and alot of others that post here that there IS something you and RFS are trying to hide. Perhaps the pending has been rejected..... perhaps all this is nothing new and is all available off the shelf as others here have pointed out. Mark @ Claco  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-01-2003 03:35 PM                     I for one have read 4 pages of this bickering and this is getting old because the member questions are not being answered. Forgetting everything I have read let me ask the simple question, where in the North Texas area can I see a Teknolite conversion first hand? Either it dramatically improves the light as compared to a properly aligned modern lamphouse or it doesn't. With only two people on the forum claiming that it works (one of which works for the company), I would like to see one first hand. If it produces the light as promised, I won't stop raving about it. (If Mark can get the website address wrong when slamming members, I can misspell Tecknerlite. )  |  IP: Logged Mark A. MacLellan Film Handler Posts: 23 From: Montreal, Quebec Registered: Jul 2003 posted 09-02-2003 01:00 AM                    OK, let me try to state a few facts. You may believe them if you wish or don't believe them. In the intertest of contributing something constructive let me say the following: 1) Technalight components are not available off-the-shelf. Some are custom made in our machine shop(s) and the reflectors are manufactured exclusively for Technalight overseas. 2) Neither I nor RFS have nothing to "hide" about the system and if we did there would not have been the success we have seen thus far (with hopefully more to come). Rather, it is an issue of trying to protect the product in an industry rampant with copy-cats. Yes, I know you're going to say "If you have a patent application then why worry...." but why invite trouble? There have already been knock-off attempts and I just don't think it's worthwhile to invite others. And no, the patent application has not been rejected. Some of you are so cynical and suspicious, I don't understand it. I'm guarded, yes....but not dishonest. 3) I don't think that contributing to the forums on www.film-tech.com is a waste of my time. Rather, I find the site useful and the comments on Technalight interesting, if not a little incorrect at times. But what bothers me is this negativity that certain members have without having actually seen the results. 4)I thought Brad's point was a good one and he posed perhaps one of the most useful questions thus far. Brad, the answer is the IMAX theatre at the Edwards Houston Marq*e 23 & IMAX. There is a 35mm system there with the Technalight kit. This is the nearest installation to Dallas that comes to mind. Lastly, let me restate that I'm not here to rave about the product or try and sell it to anyone. I merely began my posts in order to dispell some of the comments that I felt were incorrect. I'm no expert, all I can speak for is what I know to be true and what I have seen first-hand. I haven't been dishonest in any of my forum posts. As I said, just a bit guarded and there's a reason for that. Bear in mind that while I'm a true believer in the product I did not develop it nor do I own the trademark or have any claim to the intellectual property. It is not my place to discuss anything about how it works, that would be up to the developer/patent applicant.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-02-2003 02:40 AM                     I don't get to Houston very often, but the next time I do I will try and make it a point to stop in and check out that IMAX screen running something on 35mm. As far as people ripping you off, I know FAR TOO WELL what you are talking about. What is really pathetic are the people who will ultimately steal your product and market a knock-off as a "direct replacement". So of course putting aside the fact that these people are directly stealing from you (much like video pirates steal movies from the studios), add to that the product failing to provide a similar quality performance, and then as a result people blame you for the poor results that they see. (I won't even begin to get into the lowlife scum dealers who support the thieving manufacturer by peddling the illegal product. They are just as bad of thieves as the guys making it.) In my case it is damaged film claims from something that doesn't even have my company's name on the friggin' bottle...yet it is somehow MY fault that they bought a knockoff product! So yes I can fully appreciate the aggravation you have and the possible confusion you may be dealing with, which is why I would like to take all doubt out of it and see a legitimate Technalight conversion first hand. Back to the subject, let's say you have a Christie SLC lamphouse running a 6K lamp on a 50 foot 1.0 gain screen with everything fully laser aligned producing light output so blinding that if you don't back off the bulb and burn the rectifier at about 85-90% power the image will flicker. With a Technalight conversion in that same lamphouse, what size bulb would be needed to obtain that same need for patron sunglasses? Also, could you provide a ballpark price guesstimate for the conversion? Is there any hot spot in the Technalight system as compared to an unmodified SLC?  |  IP: Logged Mark A. MacLellan Film Handler Posts: 23 From: Montreal, Quebec Registered: Jul 2003 posted 09-02-2003 12:34 PM                    To produce the same light as the SLC, properly aligned with a new 6K lamp I would suggest that we could probably do it with a 3000W lamp but my preferred option would be a 4200W lamp, which could achieve the results without diffiulty. In fact, the 4200W lamp is the largest that we use in Technalight and we commonly replace 7K with the 4.2K, with better light than the 7K and less heat, less energy consumption, etc. One set of results from a Super 80 conversion we did from 7K Strong reflector to 4.2K Technalight reflector yielded a 55% increase in light and 20% better uniformity, both reflectors had been realigned prior to taking light readings and the 7K was new. The Stong reflector we used for compoarison was not "new" but showed no sign of deterioration. We tried to be as fair with the comparison as the situation allowed. So maybe that's an example of the kind of improvement I'm talking about. Oh, by the way, we did an experiment by replacing a 7K (the same Strong reflector) in a Super 80 with a 3K (Technalight reflector) and we got 9% more in terms of footlamberts and 23% better uniformity. As for a ballpark price, I'd say about $3800usd MSRP, but there are discounts for multiple purchases and we have a reflector buy-back program as well to save a little money for the client. Most conversions are in this range, with only a fluctuation of $100 or so depending on the components involved. The SLC conversions, like the Super 80, are some of the easiest and quickest that we do now. We have done many of each. Now as to the issue of uniformity, I am about to contradict myself. I said that I didn't come onto film-tech.com to rave about the product but perhaps one of the greatest things about Technalight is the uniformity. It is flat...I mean REALLY flat. Bright but flat. The install I did last week was a small screen and the conversion was a Super Lume-X with a 2000W lamp running at 80A. I normally am satisfied with "pretty even" uniformity but in this case I had to back the lamp up in order to tone-down the light to an acceptable level and that gave me incredible uniformity. Uniformity of light is something that is very important to the Technalight process and something that we promise the client when we sell the system. More light and better uniform than your existing reflector. Remember, the Technalight reflector(s) were designed (the curve, size, vortex, etc) and manufactured to match particular lamps to maximize the efficiency of the system. Thanks for asking some good questions Brad, I hope my comments above were informative.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-02-2003 01:26 PM                     Do you sell your system to others in the field, or must RFS do the install and alignment?  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-02-2003 03:48 PM                     I've installed several of the systems (with Robert) and agree with Mark that they work. I don't see any reason for RFS to give all the details of the mirrors used etc., if someone thinks the product is BS then so be it. I don't suggest there is any "magic" involved. Maybe there are lots of lamphouses that use efficient optics and get equivalent light output from equivalent lamps, I don't know. We've been involved with Strong conversions and a complete lamphouse switch with the RFS kits already installed. I've had very little experience with Christie consoles and none with conversions in them, so I can't comment on them. One simple fact is that a screen that is lit OK with a Strong 7kw console is lit OK with a 4200W conversion. That's a significant saving to the theatre in power and lamp cost, and my impression is that the light uniformity with the Technalight kit is better than can be attained with the Strong mirror. There is a penalty in having a glass mirror - it will likely be destroyed by any lamp explosion. We've all probably seen metal mirrors that are dented and scarred but still in service giving horrible light, maybe forcing a replacement mirror isn't a bad idea. I've also seen many new metal mirrors that are distorted, and metal mirrors that have been distorted by bad mounting design or bad handling/installation. This makes getting decent light uniformity impossible.  |  IP: Logged

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