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Author Topic: Comments and Info on Robert Film Service Lamphouse / Reflector Upgrades Mark A. MacLellan Film Handler Posts: 23 From: Montreal, Quebec Registered: Jul 2003 posted 09-02-2003 04:01 PM                    Well, here's how this works and I'll try to make it not sound complicated. In the United States, installations on screens LESS than 70' in width are sold by NCS and installed by either a "certified tech" or RFS. Screens of 70' in width or greater can be purchased directly from RFS and are installed by RFS. We do this because those really large screen applications require a bit of a special touch and the boss likes to be absolutely sure they're done properly. When I say "certified tech" I refer to someone who was trained by RFS to install the kits. There are a few tricks when it comes to installing these but the real reason for insisting on the tech training prior to installing Technalight is that if the system is installed by someone who doesn't quite know what they're doing then it's Technalight that gets the bad name, likely not the tech. So in order to make all things equal we make sure that anyone installing the system has been trained by RFS. Thus far there are a couple of us here at RFS, six techs in the US and of course I would include Dave Macaulay and some of his coworkers in Toronto as well.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-02-2003 06:46 PM                     Actually I would have to ask why NCS was chosen as the sole retailer of the kits in the states? I can't say that I know of another dealer that would purchase anything from them. They don't have a very good reputation here in the states either. Is this going to be a permanent thing with NCS or is this going to expire and then other dealers will be given training and dealerships? I would certainly be interested at that point. Its always been my policy to not sell anything that I am not a dealer for. Being a 2nd party dealer to things in the past has normally only complicated things further. I actually have a 15/70 3D site that could probably benefit from this conversion as well as a 35/70 machine going into that same site soon with a 7kw Super Highlite. Mark @ CLACO  |  IP: Logged Mark A. MacLellan Film Handler Posts: 23 From: Montreal, Quebec Registered: Jul 2003 posted 09-02-2003 07:50 PM                    Interestingly, we have had some experience with 70mm. At Universal Studios Florida they run six Ultra 80's for the Terminator 3D attraction all with Technalight installed. It worked out very well with double the light on-screen than pre-Technalight. Now if they could just figure out who's going to buy the place so that there might be a budget for more! I suppose there are reasons why NCS was chosen as the distributor, reasons that would not involve someone at my level. However, I can only speak highly of my own dealings with them as their supplier...I've never been a client. Ironically, I HAVE been a client of RFS for many years before joining the team and I purchased one of the first Technalight kits, before a single one had hit the US market. That's how I came to make the jump from exhibition to the equipment supply side. I should also point out that ALL technical support for the product comes directly from RFS. When clients have questions, they call us first. The majority of the conversions to date have been installed by RFS. Our approach is much more than slapping a FedEx label on a box and firing it out the door. The philosophy is that we don't just sell a reflector and a bunch of parts.....only the resulting projected image is what matters.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-03-2003 09:58 AM                     Mark, Perhaps you could check with the powers that be at RFS and see if they would be interested in another dealer. While this line is not meant to bash NCS I can unequivocally state that we nor our customers ever consider buying or having any dealings with NCS. It is they which have established the poor reputation that preceds them down here in the states. Since we directly service close to 400 screens having other dealers on tap trained to install your upgrade kits would certainly be more beneficial to your sales. Mark @ CLACO  |  IP: Logged Mark A. MacLellan Film Handler Posts: 23 From: Montreal, Quebec Registered: Jul 2003 posted 09-03-2003 11:19 AM                    The next generation of the Technalight system is in the manufacture stage as I write this and will soon be in the testing stage. If all goes well we'd like to see the next evolution complete before the end of 2003. It's my belief that the decision was made to go with NCS due to this evolutionary nature of the product and the fact that RFS, at the time that Technalight was ready to launch on the US market, had no exposure or "contacts" in the States. But Mark, it is certainly very enlightening to hear your comments on NCS and I would always be interested in similar opinions from others, so thanks! I guess what I'm trying to say is that I would not consider the existing situation to be permanent and I would welcome an "opening up" of the distribution in the US and abroad. I'll do what I can for ya....  |  IP: Logged Greg Pauley Expert Film Handler Posts: 173 From: Huntington, WV, USA Registered: Jun 2000 posted 09-03-2003 04:32 PM                        Let me be the first to disagree with Mark’s comments about NCS. Maybe he has experienced problems out west with NCS, but my experience with the Cincinnati branch over the last 15 years has been excellent. I have dealt with Barb Cammack and until recently Mitch Bryson and have nothing but high regards for Barb and NCS. The Cincinnati branch of NCS has handled several builds for us over the years and has always come through with everything that was promised and on time. I can’t really speak about their tech service, since we handle all our tech work in-house. Mark, I think it’s kinda of funny that you have gone from “ RFS is making a fool out of themselves” to can we be a dealer for technalight, all in a couple of days.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-03-2003 06:49 PM                     Greg, Its good that you've had positive experiences with NCS. At least someone has. My negative experiences were back in the Midwest and in the south east. Technicians were sent out to do important jobs on location film work that were not qualified to even be working in the field. I was ultimately called in to straighten out the mess in those locations. NCS had also made for themselves a bad reputation in the midwest area. In fact I had hired an ex NCS tech to work for my company and well....I can't say anything more than that on this site..... As for RFS. I'm glad that Mark has cleared the air about the system, and we are sure interested in it. I'm sure that others which were skeptical here are now also interested in the conversion. We at Claco are always interested in selling our customers the best options available. It did seem though that Mark M. thought that this site was a waste of time and I think he now feels differntly about that. Indeed it is a good site to expose at least some information on it so more are in the know. Most companies and I'm sure RFS included are always looking to expand its horizon and get further into the different film markets that are out there. I look foreword to eventually upgrading some nearby systems at a 6 screen drive in, and at two local Large format theatres in the near future. Mark @ CLACO  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-03-2003 07:46 PM                     We have done many retrofits in the past using the meopta and some ernamann (balzer) and some galileao reflectors and had good results but the cost factor comaperd to a whole new box (with new ignitors etc) really negated the value compared to just buying a new ernamann or kinoton lamphouse. The only cases we have recently done that was to retrofit some verticle lamphouses were the rear protruding soundheads made fitting a new lamphouse on difficult  |  IP: Logged Mark A. MacLellan Film Handler Posts: 23 From: Montreal, Quebec Registered: Jul 2003 posted 09-05-2003 03:07 PM                    Mark, were you referring to National Cinema SUPPLY or National Cinema SERVICE?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-05-2003 05:45 PM                     Mark, My experience, and some of my past Midwestern independents experience with both companies would rate about the same. Almost all of them never delt with either of them again after their first experience. Back then a couple of the National Cinema Supply offices also farmed out some of their work to outside contractors to be done. That sometimes creates more problems than it solves. Keep in mind that this was around 10 years ago though. Perhaps some miracle has happened and there are now competant people there doing a good job. That would be great and is how things should be, but most of the better technicians are working for the smaller supply dealers these days, or in buisness for themselves making far better pay then they were willing to provide. The stuff I was called in to straighten out on the location film productions in Florida was due to inexperienced personel which National Cinema Service sent out from the home office in Louisiana. As far as the branch managers leaving...it was due to dislike of the company...... and that was with National Cinema Supply. Mark  |  IP: Logged Ken Layton Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1452 From: Olympia, Wash. USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 09-06-2003 01:02 AM                     I just looked at Strong's Product Bulletin 36 (PB-036) and it mentions instant void warranty on their consoles and lamphouses if non-Strong parts are installed or unauthorized modifications are performed. It also mentions the consoles and lamphouses using non-Strong parts and/or unauthorized parts will be no longer UL approved. I would assume if this conversion were done to say a Highlight console or a Super Lume-x lamphouse then it's not UL approved and Strong won't warranty anything on the equipment. Anyone from Strong care to comment? Pat Moore maybe?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-06-2003 07:53 AM                     As to UL...generally, any changes to a piece of equipment would require resubmitting for UL approval, if one wanted to get hypertechnical about it. As to the warranty...First off, who is buying new lamphouses/consoles and then installing a retrofit kit? If it is after the first year of operation, then it is really a moot point since the warranty has expired. I think you will find that most manufacturers will void warranties if modifications cause a problem. If the modification didn't cause a problem, then who is making a warranty claim? An easier example would be a wiring change...if someone came up with a "better" way to wire the console...bypassing that pesky circuit breaker because to dumb kids keep bumping it off and using smaller easier to work with wire. Hey 18awg should be good enough for my 5000 watt console...it works fine for my house lamp and it is pretty bright....etc. Steve  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-06-2003 10:56 AM                     "Hey 18awg should be good enough for my 5000 watt console...it works fine for my house lamp and it is pretty bright....etc. " Good idea fuses don't get bumped off  |  IP: Logged Mark A. MacLellan Film Handler Posts: 23 From: Montreal, Quebec Registered: Jul 2003 posted 09-06-2003 11:49 AM                    Yeah, Steve makes a good point here in that warranties only go for a year anyway so it's a bit redundant, huh? And yes, who the heck would buy a brand new console or lamphouse and then install a third-party upgrade kit in the first year? If brand new gear is what you want then I would suggest looking at the Technalight console, due to become available within a few weeks. If all goes as planned the Technalight console (serial number 000001) should be on display at ShowEast. Complete with UL cert and everything As for the UL approval, yes I would expect that any modifications performed, such as a Technalight conversion, would void the UL cert, whether they be "electrical" in nature or not. But for the record, Technalight conversions do not require rectifier or lamphouse re-wiring, it's simply hardware & lamp changes and realignment. Back to the topic of NCS(s)...I confess I have no experience with National Cinema Service, never talked to them. It's National Cinema Supply based in Tampa who are our distributors in the United States. I have dealt with a great many people within the organization over the past year & a half and have nothing but raves for them. Ten years ago is a long time with the way things (and people) in this business change and certainly pre-dates me and Technalight. But I can assure you (the collective "you") that if RFS felt that National Cinema Supply was not representing our product in a favourable light or if their customer service to the end-user fell short of the mark, we would be most concerned. I have never, not once, ever felt that anyone at NCS has been anything less than a total professional. But ya know, I'm sure that everyone reading this would agree that every single service/supply company has it's detractors and disgruntled customers, RFS included. Well, like to write more but gotta run. I just realized I have to change some 18awg wiring in a lamphouse...I'm sure I saw a roll of 16awg speaker wire back in the shop somewhere  |  IP: Logged Erick Akers Arse Kicker Posts: 201 From: Dallas, TX, USA Registered: May 2001 posted 03-04-2004 05:34 PM                     All Bullshit aside, Has anyone witnessed this system in service? I know that I'm still interested!!! Thanks, Erick  |  IP: Logged

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