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Topic: LOTR: Return of the King will have 3 DTS discs

Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 09-08-2003 11:36 PM

Gord I have to respectfully disagree with your argument.

First of all, contracts can be different between a studio and various theatres. If a theatre must -- out of technical necessity -- have an intermission then that is one thing. On the other hand, theatres that are capably equipped to exhibit the movie without interruption ought to honor their agreement and play the film that way unless they have obtained proper approval to program an intermission.

And, to reiterate my first statement, just because the studio permits an intermission in one case would not necessarily make it a free-for-all.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 09-08-2003 11:53 PM

We had a theatre in ashboro, N.C. that has since been torn down and a new one built in its place that will be opening soon. The old theatre ran into problems with getting the last two Rings picture because the theatre used Christie Mini winds. That required the need for an intermission. I think DTS has upset some Exhibitors because a lot of them bought up the older DTS units in bulk quanities with the Idea that they would continue supporting them.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-09-2003 01:37 AM

quote:
Don't any of You guys get it: They don't have any of those good old first DTS units left back there at DTS. -Now they want to look inside them to see, what made them run so much better than the next generation

From what I've seen, that's certainly the case. The Carmike 8 here has been open for over 9 years and the two original DTS units it opened with in 1994 have not had any problems. They have a 3rd 2-drive unit on #7 that is even older than the ones on screens #4 and #5 (and that one doesn't even have the DTS logo on it; just plain letters). Any glitches they've had, such as disc drive failures have been confined to the DTS-6D players.

I really hope the 3 disc thing is just a rumor. It would suck to have to put the film in smaller houses with 6D players just to avoid having to change out discs during the show.

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 09-09-2003 01:42 AM

Shouldn`t it be possible to play the movie on a dts-6 without dropping to analog? In my experience, the dts-6 doesn`t mind when you take an idle CD out while it is playing. So it should be possible to take out the first disc while the second is playing and put in the third into the A drive, or am I wrong?

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 09-09-2003 01:48 AM

Michael, you just came up with a new experiment for me when no one shows up for Spy Kids in this dead part of the year at our place! [Big Grin]

AJG

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 09-09-2003 01:56 AM

I think everyone here is being incredibly unfair to DTS, jumping to all kinds of conclusions based on a rumor. If LotR: Return of the King is over the limit for two discs it HAS to be three discs, DTS can't wave a magic wand and make it fit on two, only Peter Jackson can do that by cutting the movie down. If New Line doesn't want to program an intermission unless technicaly required then there is nothing DTS can do about that either.

Did it ever occur to anyone that DTS is just trying to make sure no one gets caught with their pants down? Putting out the info early enough for exhibitors to schedule sound upgrades if they decide to go that route?

We'll never know now but I wonder how much bitching and moaning there would have been if all those theatres with only two drawer units opened their film cans on December 16th only to discover three discs.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 09-09-2003 02:51 AM

I know for a fact that if you take one of the discs out, the unit will drop out of dts and reload the disc that is still in the other drive. You can't interchange the discs and expect it to keep working while you swap the discs.

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 09-09-2003 09:52 AM

Well, I guess there goes my experiment Darryl. I'm not mad at DTS really, as I still think they have the superior format. If the movie actually warrants 3 discs, so be it. Awesome! However, the fact that they coincide a trade in for the XD-10 with the release of a 3 disc film seemed fishy. Of course, it'd be nice to have an XD-10 instead of the 6. Well, at least based on what I've read, the XD-10 is a nice little unit.

AJG

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 09-09-2003 10:46 AM

quote:
coincide a trade in for the XD-10 with the release of a 3 disc film seemed fishy

Oh come on...they're just marketing. They developed a new product and they're trying to sell it. At least they made sure it works before they started selling it, unlike many computer software manufacturers.

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Jonathan M. Crist
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 531
From: Hershey, PA, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 09-09-2003 10:51 AM

Darryl, I believe you are wrong.

I have a DTS 6 and am able to swap one disc while the other is running. This was the way that Gods and Generals was done - however the swap occurred while the blank film and intermission music was running in the other drive.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 09-09-2003 11:23 AM

Distribution has been allowing intermissions to be inserted in films in foreign markets for decades. And as Gordon says, they even indicate where to put them. Intermissions in films overseas are not allowed because of equipment limitations but because in these countries intermissions are culturally demanded.

Seems to me American exhibitors and their audiences should be treated with the same flexibility (and respect). The exhibitor knows his audience. He should be able to say, "listen, I just cannot subject my patrons to a 4 hour movie without a break." My demographics include a large number of elderly. I know my audience and even 3 hours is a long time for many of them to sit without a break. If the people in dozens of other countries can get a potty break, then I should be able to do the same for my people. The studios aren't telling every theatre in India that either they play a 4 hour movie without a break or they don't play it at all -- if they demanded that, they would loose an awful lot of screens.

I certainly understand that the integrity of the filmmaker's work is a top priority, but if an intermission doesn't destroy the artistic integrity for millions of people overseas, then I can't see how it will over here. But of course we all understand that what ALWAYS tops artistic integrity in Hollywood is MONEY. If exhibition said in one unison voice, "we won't play any picture longer than two and a half hours if we are not allowed to put in an intermission".....how fast do you think those intermission snips would be shipped out from the studios?! FexEx overnight no doubt.

And Marty is right -- since when does distribution care about presentation quality? If they did, they wouldn't allow their product to play half the theatres in the outer boroughs of NYC. Make no mistake, LOTR will play in grind houses that used to be relegated to play underbelly runs long after a title moved out of the classy first runs, but today these same vermin infested holes get to open day and date with the very best first run flagship theatres. I don't think an intermission is nearly as much an assault on a film's integrity as is a theatre with a cropped screen, two channel front/rear sound, a xenon bulb putting out 1/3rd its light and narrow seats that have springs sticking you in the ass.

Concern for presentation quality doesn't prevent them from sticking huge CAP dots all over the print in full sight of the audience.

Intermissions are the least of the distribution's worries when it comes to demanding quality presentation.

Frank

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 09-09-2003 12:59 PM

To clarify, DTS has been offering the trade in deal on the DTS-6 unit ever since the XD-10 became commercially available. This isn't something they just started for LotR: Return of the King.

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Kevin Wale
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 167
From: Guymon, OK USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 09-09-2003 01:31 PM

quote:
I know for a fact that if you take one of the discs out, the unit will drop out of dts and reload the disc that is still in the other drive. You can't interchange the discs and expect it to keep working while you swap the discs.

The DTS6D units are almost always switching back and forth between the two discs while the movie is going. You can watch it. These discs don't play like a cd with all the information in order. They play like a hard drive with pieces placed in a numeric order that makes for the quickest scanning with the least amount of reader movement during a long action heavy sequence.

Because of this, if you take out one disc, you very well may be taking out the disc that the very next bit of explosion is stored on. For the most efficiency, both discs must be booted at all times. To remove one, causes the machine to reboot and find the missing disc.

My experience confirms that if you eject one disc, the machine trys to reboot until it finds the second disc.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 09-09-2003 01:38 PM

quote:
The DTS6 units are almost always switching back and forth between the two discs while the movie is going. You can watch it. These discs don't play like a cd with all the information in order. They play like a hard drive with pieces placed in a numeric order that makes for the quickest scanning with the least amount of reader movement during a long action heavy sequence.

The disks contain a file for each REEL and any switching back and forth would be if the reels were mixed between the two disks due to time considerations. If your machine is "switching back and forth" during individual reels, you've got a problem.

And, whether the action is heavy or it's just dialogue or even "silence" makes no difference. It's all just ones and zeroes.

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Kevin Wale
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 167
From: Guymon, OK USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 09-09-2003 01:43 PM

This board continually makes me wonder where some of the information given at out theatre is obtained from. Hmmm.

So, perhaps the green light lighting up isn't really switching? I always assumed it was like a computer hard drive light. When that drive was reading... it lights up. Is it rather that both discs are always being read because of the timecode?

If so, that would still be the reason why you can't eject discs if both are needed to be sequenced with the timecode.

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