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Author Topic: Union Projectionists
Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 07-14-2010 11:38 AM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark J. Marshall
No, he's just a guy who is very familiar with what it takes for employees to get a union OUT of a company. In those cases, the unions do not work for the employees, they work for themselves.
I'm just saying that if a large part of my career was working to bust unions, I might have a more jaded view of them in general (and I know some here think it's already jaded [Wink] ).

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Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 07-14-2010 01:11 PM      Profile for Sam D. Chavez   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm glad to see this thread return to civil discourse.

Chris' last post is very well put.

A lot of us on this forum are jaded. We have had more than one career, and maybe did not end up doing exactly what we set out to do.

Please permit a little joke that occurred to me when thinking of this union busting consultant.

"Lawyers are people who encourage their clients to strip down for a fight and then steal their clothes."

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 07-14-2010 01:31 PM      Profile for Bill Enos   Email Bill Enos   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A union is basically a club organized for a specific purpose, likewise is a country club. The union is full of people like you who are stuck in a crummy job and need the power of a group to improve their position. The country club is made of people with the same needs but use the social network of the CC to meet and greet themselves upward instead of stewing in the same old job trying to lever themselves into more money, etc. Long term the CC membership will serve better than the union.

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Robert Koch
Film Handler

Posts: 93
From: Williams Ca USA
Registered: Apr 2006


 - posted 07-14-2010 01:39 PM      Profile for Robert Koch   Email Robert Koch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good one, Sam, reminds me of Ambrose Bearce`s quote from many years ago, a lawyer; " one well schooled in the circumvention of the law"

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-14-2010 02:22 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I really do not like the term "scab". It has such a negative connotation and I don't think it has ever been used in a positive sense.

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Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 07-14-2010 05:52 PM      Profile for Sam D. Chavez   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The politically correct term for scab is "replacement worker".

The only individual this relabeling helps is the worker walking through a picket line to take someone else's job.

Somehow, this does not get it for me.

Kind of like calling Monica Lewinsky a surrogate lover.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-14-2010 06:09 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The thing is, though, that a business is a business. They will need replacement workers. A union cannot expect (nor condemn) non-union workers for not abiding by their rules and/or walking past their lines. I'm sure any replacement worker knows it is only temporary and they probably need the money.

Still, the word "scab" has been used to describe anyone who is non-union, period. For example, I am a scab projectionist. When union projectionists go on strike, how are they even able to get replacement workers (back in the day)? If the union ran all the city's projectors, there wouldn't be anyone else trained to run them. Someone had to train the replacement workers or the managers.

How did they come up with the word "scab" anyway? Who thinks of things like that?

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

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From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002


 - posted 07-14-2010 06:55 PM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's part of something that unions are pretty good at... which is intimidation. I don't get the big mean looking ugly blow up rat with blood dripping from his mouth either. Usually I see a few burly guys standing around - maybe holding a sign, maybe not, who are upset about something going on inside of the business they're standing out in front of.

I'm aware of cases where union folks walk into a building, enter a place where only employees go, and engage a non-English speaking employee explaining to them that they're from the HR department and they need them to sign something. And they get them to sign a union petition card.

I'm also aware of a person who works to educate employees about the negative side effects of a union (not the same person I mentioned above) and whenever he has to go to a certain job site where the union was fought and beaten he has to bring a rental car. They know his car and inflict damage on it whenever he's in the area.

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Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 07-14-2010 08:41 PM      Profile for Greg Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As a young, impressionable, teen usher, I watched as a dispute between the corporate officials (hundreds of miles away) and the projectionist union played out inside our very own theatre. Long story short, someone went behind the screen and sabotaged the sound system right before a sold out show was scheduled to begin.

I can't be certain who did that but, to an impressionable teenager, it seemed obvious. I could only assume that, deep down, they didn't care about the theatre, its staff nor its customers. A couple of months later when I had a chance to become a "scab" teen projectionist I didn't feel bad about it. Was I "taking someone else's job"? It didn't seem like the person who wrecked the sound system deserved a job anyway.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-14-2010 09:51 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here a employer can petition to have a vote to decertifie a union or the members can and if there are less than 7 memebers at a specifiec job site it is very easy

Also Sam said "Kind of like calling Monica Lewinsky a surrogate lover. " I thought she was a intament cigar holder [Smile]

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Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 07-14-2010 11:03 PM      Profile for Sam D. Chavez   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not sure where the term scab originated but,if you read your labor history, goons were hired by business owners and there was a lot of blood shed. The Ford plant had machine guns mounted at the entrances to the Dearborn plant and on and on. Mine owners also used the Pinkerton agency extensively for some very dirty tricks where people died.

As late as the 1970's, union business agents and their families were called and threatened anonymously during the UA/Syufy lockout so there has been some serious intimidation much worse than a slashed screen.

Someone said to "To forget history is to repeat it", but Henry Ford said "History is Bunk". Go figure.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 07-15-2010 04:17 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
..From Wikipedia on the topic of

Henry FORD and the unions.

quote:
Labor unions

Ford was adamantly against labor unions. He explained his views on unions in Chapter 18 of "My Life and Work". He thought they were too heavily influenced by some leaders who, despite their ostensible good motives, would end up doing more harm than good for workers. Most wanted to restrict productivity as a means to foster employment, but Ford saw this as self-defeating because, in his view, productivity was necessary for any economic prosperity to exist.

He believed that productivity gains that obviated certain jobs would nevertheless stimulate the larger economy and thus grow new jobs elsewhere, whether within the same corporation or in others. Ford also believed that union leaders (particularly Leninist-leaning ones) had a perverse incentive to foment perpetual socio-economic crisis as a way to maintain their own power. Meanwhile, he believed that smart managers had an incentive to do right by their workers, because doing so would maximize their own profits. (Ford did acknowledge, however, that many managers were basically too bad at managing to understand this fact.) But Ford believed that eventually, if good managers such as he could fend off the attacks of misguided people from both left and right (i.e., both socialists and bad-manager reactionaries), the good managers would create a socio-economic system wherein neither bad management nor bad unions could find enough support to continue existing.

To forestall union activity, Ford promoted Harry Bennett, a former Navy boxer, to head the Service Department. Bennett employed various intimidation tactics to squash union organizing. The most famous incident, in 1937, was a bloody brawl between company security men and organizers that became known as 'The Battle of the Overpass'.

In the late 1930s and early 1940s, Edsel (who was president of the company) thought Ford had to come to some sort of collective bargaining agreement with the unions, because the violence, work disruptions, and bitter stalemates could not go on forever. But Henry (who still had the final veto in the company on a de facto basis even if not an official one) refused to cooperate. For several years, he kept Bennett in charge of talking to the unions that were trying to organize the Ford company. Sorensen's memoir makes clear that Henry's purpose in putting Bennett in charge was to make sure no agreements were ever reached.

The Ford company was the last Detroit automaker to recognize the United Auto Workers union (UAW). A sit-down strike by the UAW union in April 1941 closed the River Rouge Plant. Sorensen recounted that a distraught Henry Ford was very close to following through with a threat to break up the company rather than cooperate but that his wife Clara told him she would leave him if he destroyed the family business. She wanted to see their son and grandsons lead it into the future. Henry complied with his wife's ultimatum. Overnight the Ford Co. went from the most stubborn holdout among automakers to the one with the most favorable UAW contract terms. The contract was signed in June 1941.

In 1978, on PBS stations, in a NOVA episode which was titled, "The Road To Happiness: Henry Ford" .. and in this episode was a segment of the story above on Ford's hatred to the unions..

-Monte

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 07-15-2010 06:08 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
US Air/Air West decertified a union and then voted to go with another union. Kind of dirty dirty, though. Search on Airline Pilot Central Forums. Louis

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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 07-19-2010 01:26 PM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The whole "Scab" thing can get pretty touchy sometimes. Like when a service company has to send Techs in to a booth that is on a strike or lockout. It can be a pretty inconvenient or down right scary situation for the tech.

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Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-19-2010 04:59 PM      Profile for Martin McCaffery   Author's Homepage   Email Martin McCaffery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Going back to Monte's question about how bad things were for IATSE to form the MPMO, I don't have specifics, but they were doing grueling work for long hours in really bad conditions. Think about hand cranking a projector for 14 hours in an unairconditioned projection booth. And dangerous as the nitrate film could explode (and no medical benefits if you got hurt in said explosion or fire). And, of course, no job or pay security.

I read through some of the old correspondence from Local 224 when I was on the board. Projectionists used to have to go to the depot to pick up the film (probably on their own time). THis is probably the reason for the inclusion in contracts that all film must be delivered to the projection room door and the projectionist will not pick it up anywhere else.

I also saw indications that pay was based on number of tickets sold. I know this sort of carried over in union pay rates being based on number of seats.

So just off the top of my head, these seem like some pretty good reasons to organize: Work Conditions, work rules, pay and job security.

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