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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Union Projectionists (Page 39)

 
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Author Topic: Union Projectionists
Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 07-19-2010 05:20 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
..and it's kinda funny that some of those work conditions prior to the MPMO organization have returned to us.

1-sometimes, a theatre employee has to head either to the plane terminal, or some drop off point to retrieve prints that comes in late .. and some employees were not re-imbursed for mileage-it was expected and part of their jobs. "Wow, let's put print circuiting between company locations in this topic here: Do any employee member that is circuiting a print from one location to another, get any sort of re-imbursement, or mileage for such tasks??"

2-working in non-air conditioned work areas.

3-work rules to where the floor staff literally hates the occupation.

but..at least, no cranking of Powers, Simplex Standards and a host of other machines and dealing with life threatening film dangers ..now just covering yourself due to mishandling of xenon bulbs.

And if any mention of organizing, that employee is dismissed quickly so not to disturb the workforce.

Boy, did this come full-circle here: First, it was doing favors with your boss/employer who gave you no respect, then union organizations ceased that practice to protect these employees, and now, it has gone back to doing the same favors as it was in the beginning..

-Monte

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Rick Raskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1100
From: Manassas Virginia
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 07-20-2010 07:31 AM      Profile for Rick Raskin   Email Rick Raskin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Monte L Fullmer
And if any mention of organizing, that employee is dismissed quickly so not to disturb the workforce.
Employees must be careful not to speak of organizing while on Company time or on Company premises. Other than that, dismissal for such is blatantly illegal.

An employer can always come up with another excuse for letting an employee go, but an established pattern could rule in favor of labor. (Not that anyone in this business would want to take it that far.)

I could argue both pro and con for union representation. But as I said in an earlier post, I think the time for organizing theater employees has long since passed.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-20-2010 09:20 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Monte L Fullmer
First, it was doing favors with your boss/employer who gave you no respect
Monte... It would be more the employees fault for working for that type of person in the first place. Once you find out your employer is that way why would any one stay there. There are other jobs and other places to work that are not that way.

Mark

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Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 07-20-2010 11:20 AM      Profile for Greg Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
"History is more or less bunk. It's tradition. We don't want tradition. We want to live in the present, and the only history that is worth a tinker's damn is the history that we make today." (Chicago Tribune, 1916).
So, in Ford's defense, his life was about creating new products, a new industry and new techniques about which history had little to say. Other quotes attributed to Ford include...

quote:
"You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do."
"If you think you can, you can. And if you think you can't, you're right."

We can use the "History is bunk" quote out of context and decide that Ford was a fool. That would be an ill-informed assessment and, ironically, would require us to ignore the history of Henry Ford.

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Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-20-2010 12:04 PM      Profile for Martin McCaffery   Author's Homepage   Email Martin McCaffery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Once you find out your employer is that way why would any one stay there. There are other jobs and other places to work that are not that way.
Because everyone wants to be in SHOW BIZ!! [Wink]

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 07-20-2010 01:17 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Because everyone wants to be in SHOW BIZ!!
Which is true why some employees, who have to put up with the guff from some of these employers, have a hard time reaching the point that a choice really has to take place at that time in their lives since they really do love being in this biz, plus what they do and will actually fight for what they love doing.

Some are smart enough to bail out when that time comes and others are confined and trapped to their dedication and loyalty to the companies that they work for.

I've been there and done that along with seeing both above happen.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 07-20-2010 10:05 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've never minded helping out. Being REQUIRED to do additional work without pay is another thing. What I might do when I have nothing personal to do (wife out-of-town, kid busy, etc.) might not work at all if I have other obligations.

Union contracts that I had any input with specifically said that "other duties were optional at the discresion of the employee with no penalty if refused." Louis

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-21-2010 08:11 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, BUT....there is always a fine line between trying to keep the paying field even, which the union needs to do and supressing initiative.

For example, let's say an employer needs extra work done that is outside a worker's job description. One worker says, "Sure I'll paint the booth and the stairwell." He figures he's got the time, in fact, he might even enjoy doing a little painting, and what's the harm, he is only improving his own workspace so he is more than willing. But this, of course, would be strenuously objected to by the union, both against the employer for asking and the worker for objecting.

Some would see this as the union just being obstructionist, after all, if the employee is just going the extra mile and it's his choice and the employer hasn't demanding it, why make a major issue of it? One could say that it's all in the spirit of working together and cooperation. BUT still the union strenuously objects and might even take punitive action against the union member. Why? Because even though that member is taking on this extra task willingly, how does his action impact the member who says, "No, thank you, I am not a painter and I want to go home to my family; I would rather not paint, thank you very much."

He certainly would be within his rights to say no to the employer's request. The problem is that the worker who "goes that extra mile" will put the one who fulfills his job obligations 100% professionally but declines other work outside his job descrition will be made to somehow look less of a "team player" in the eyes of the employer. It's human nature. When it comes time for a promotion, who do you think will have that extra advantage in the eyes of the employer? Who will be seen in a more favorable light. And it will be an unfair advantage generated by an employee against another employee.

When the union insist that ALL employees follow the work restrictions, they do so in order to simply keep the playing field level; many however see this as the union just being obstructionist. But it's a fine line which many times easily turns into a shop steward coming down on a worker because he's working at full capacity and is told to "slow down" because he's making the sloths "look bad."

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Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 07-21-2010 09:30 AM      Profile for Sam D. Chavez   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Regarding a previous post, nothing I said would portray Henry Ford as a fool. The history he disdained shows quite the contrary. He was brilliant, complicated, and controversial throughout his life.

Anytime you quote a phrase someone uttered, it's by definition not in context. It does appear he said exactly what he said on this occasion. The sense of it seems correct to me.

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Jonathan Smith
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 201
From: Youngstown, OH
Registered: Jan 2010


 - posted 07-21-2010 06:10 PM      Profile for Jonathan Smith   Email Jonathan Smith   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank, Louis, if anything, the Union is opposite of what Frank portrays it to be.

I get paid 6 hrs. at a certain chain not to be named, and if it takes me twice that much, it is still only my 6 hrs. pay, unless the work is legitimately double of what I normally get on a Thursday.

This brings my pay, sometimes, BELOW minimum wage.

That's the way the contract is worked out, to gurantee hours every week for the Union.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-21-2010 06:12 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's a stupid contract. You guys were duped!

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Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-21-2010 06:30 PM      Profile for Martin McCaffery   Author's Homepage   Email Martin McCaffery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jonathan Smith
This brings my pay, sometimes, BELOW minimum wage.

I'm not a labor atty, but I don't think even a union contract can make you work for under minimum wage. If you are paid by the hour and not salaried and not management. Are you getting 40hrs a week?

Sounds like someone is screwing and someone is getting screwed.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-21-2010 07:23 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Because everyone wants to be in SHOW BIZ!!
Well, I realize that Martin but there are a plethora of theaters to choose to work at... This is just one aspect of show buisness.

Mark

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David Kilderry
Master Film Handler

Posts: 355
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 07-21-2010 07:39 PM      Profile for David Kilderry   Author's Homepage   Email David Kilderry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow, plenty of reading and interesting opinions here!

As someone who has worked as both a union and non-union projectionist, I always thought somewhere in the middle would have been best. Unfortunately neither side ever found that middle ground.

Some of the stop-work meetings (mini-strikes) we had were over crazy non-issues, they were just examples of muscle flexing. When working without any union protection, some companies simply would not pay for work done or comply with conditions agreed to.

A well managed cinema company was always a pleasure to work for regardless of whether it was a union house or not.

David

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Elizabeth Betty Gross
Film Handler

Posts: 18
From: Astoria, NY, USA
Registered: Jul 2004


 - posted 08-02-2010 08:08 PM      Profile for Elizabeth Betty Gross   Email Elizabeth Betty Gross   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would like to know which theater (and which union contract) in NYC requires you to work any amount of time without pay. I have worked in NYC through Local 306 for 26 years and have never been expected to work without pay. The only circumstance where I might consider doing so would be if I had not completed work I should have been able to do during pay time. If I did my job properly and there is more to do, I ask the manager if they want me to stay later to complete the work that could not be done. They are aware of the workload. Then it is up to them if they want to continue paying me for my work. I don't work for free.

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