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Author Topic: New DTS Anti-Piracy Security Enhancements Oscar Neundorfer Master Film Handler Posts: 275 From: Senoia, GA Registered: May 2000 posted 12-05-2003 06:45 AM                        Brad, What Phil said. Maybe it is a normal part of the soundtrack. I have not seen the movie (Gothika) so I don't know what is going on in the scene you recorded. It sounds as if it could be part of the scene, but without the context, I can't tell. The sounds are certainly obvious enough, and if they do not fit in with the scene, then they would be quite annoying. However, from what I have experienced, most people at the movies would probably never hear it or just think it was intended unless it became really obnoxious and did not fit the context.  |  IP: Logged Greg Mueller Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1687 From: Port Gamble, WA Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-05-2003 10:06 AM                        This is kind of like the "tree falling in the forest" question. If you did not know there are plans for copy protection, would you have thought anything of it? I mean if you've got to make recordings of it and listen real carefully and play it only in mono etc etc, does it matter? Would you have thought anything of it 2 months ago?  |  IP: Logged Thomas Procyk Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1842 From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-05-2003 10:18 AM                     quote: If you did not know there are plans for copy protection, would you have thought anything of it? Apparently, nobody knew there were plans for the Deluxe CRAP code, but we still think something of it now that it's there. I agree with the skeptics. Maybe it's part of the movie? It sounded to me like some Star Trek type equipment doing it's thing in the background. Then again, it sounded a little bit like those digital "hiccups" on badly encoded MP3s, although not as loud and annoying. If that IS a copy protection method, it will help our owner make his final decision between another DTS or another Dolby unit. =TMP=  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-05-2003 10:26 AM                     The tones are there, plain as day. Cut out the section of the track, amplify it and filter out as much of the dialog as you can you get this: Beeps.mp3 Display graphically (as a sonogram) and you get this: Yes, they are there. But, how/why they are there is yet to be determined. They look and sound like a modern version of the old Simplex tones. Are you sure they couldn't have been inserted by some other piece of equipment in the chain? I have heard DSP-60s and CP-500s insert funky sounds into the mix when they malfunction, although NOTING like this!  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-05-2003 11:39 AM                     Randy, I cannot connect to your link. Please email it to me and I will put it on our servers. The movie moves into an SRD house. I will try and catch the same scene tonight. Both are on CP65s.  |  IP: Logged Greg Mueller Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1687 From: Port Gamble, WA Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-05-2003 02:12 PM                        Down at the shop I get noise from the computer driven machines. They produce RF like mad. You can't hear AM radio at all within 50'. FM gets it too but not as bad. I could be something (not saying it is) like computers, cell phones or(in my case) computer driven stuff, ham radio operators etc etc. If it's repeatable then there goes that theory Why not simply call DTS and ask if that particular film has their copy protection scheme on it?  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-05-2003 03:13 PM                     The exact same set of tones occurs at approximately five second intervals. Brad's clip is about 26 seconds long. I heard the tones 5 times. I only picked out the easiest ones to filter for.  |  IP: Logged Dennis M Dow Jr Expert Film Handler Posts: 141 From: Bloomfield NJ USA Registered: Oct 2003 posted 12-05-2003 03:44 PM                       Has anyone thought this might have been a piece of equipment operating in the background... After all the movie is supposed to take place in a hospital.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-05-2003 06:17 PM                     FWIW, I think that the industry is simply using "anti-piracy" as an elaborate excuse to destroy any chance that film presentations could possibly look good. IMO, the studios are guilty of "stacking the deck" so that dCinema can look better by comparison. That's just my little conspiracy theory based strictly on a deep-seeded paranoia as far as "big business" is concerned. In truth, I have never actually seen electronic cinema but I wonder if they use CAP code for those?  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-05-2003 06:48 PM                        Well, if it is a kind of audio cap code, how long will it be before, just like what happened to the fairly unobtrusive Kodak codes, they start turning them into audio CRAP codes and putting them in the soundtrack at +3 DB?!..."just to make sure" they copy thru to handheld video cameras in the theatre. I think there may be something to the RF theory though, we once got a series of beeps in our studio when we used a particular Crown Audio Tape Recorder. It would be heard well under the recorded audio, but there it was nontheless, and it ruined many a live recording, much to my frustration. I couldn't find out where it was coming from or how it was introduced into the recorder's electronics. I called in some other techs and we all trouble shot the bastard for weeks. The guess was, although it was never definately proven, that the beeps were part of a master clock system that sent adjusting tones over the AC line. I never actually believed that because there were too many holes in the theory. But no matter, the problem was magically solved (for me, anyway) when I got a new job in another theatre.  |  IP: Logged Antonio Marcheselli Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1260 From: Florence, Italy Registered: Mar 2000 posted 12-05-2003 09:25 PM                        Brad, to my ears the beep can be clearly heard, without problems. I hope that that beeps are part of the soundtrack, otherwise DTS sound is over!!!! BTW: Where is Karen? Bye A  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 12-06-2003 02:24 AM                        Do these beeps occur throughout the movie or only in certain places? I would like to check them out, but don`t really have the time to watch all of "Gothika".  |  IP: Logged Chris Trainor Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Greenville, RI, USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-06-2003 03:35 AM                        The thing is, if this is intentional, it's something that could be created by the playback unit. Ideally each unit would insert something like this in low scenes with a coding based on it's serial number. That way if you keep track of which serial number player is in each theater you can find out instantly where the camcorder shooting came from. It would also be great for digital cinema... same thing. The digital projectors could insert CRAPCODE in a sequence relative to it's serial number or something. I'm sure every theater dumping $100k is gonna send back the warranty card. So they'd have a list of where each box is. --Chris  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-06-2003 04:33 AM                     Here is the same clip from an SRD auditorium (also with CP65). SRD clip I don't hear it, but I could flip flop players between the two auditoriums and see if the noise follows the digital format. I did not hear the noise during trailer green bands playing in dts though. Anyone have this playing in SDDS?  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 12-06-2003 04:55 AM                        quote: The thing is, if this is intentional, it's something that could be created by the playback unit. Yes, I think you are right. Somebody must have broken into Brad`s location and installed the SBCG (Secret Beep Code Generator) in the dts-, sorry, DTS-processor. Have you been SBCGed? The only way to tell is to open the unit and look inside. Look for the square orange box where it says SBCG. But don`t remove it - it is booby-trapped.  |  IP: Logged

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