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Author Topic: Is 70mm Gone For Good? Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-25-2003 11:25 AM                     The lack of a "moveover" house for 70mm is becoming less of an issue as well. Many "big" titles are getting contracts that require exclusive use of the biggest theatre for x-number of weeks anyway...you can't move the 35mm prints in those situations either. The cost of 70mm has never been less expensive to the exhibitor...you don't need the magnetic part for the projector or sound system. For the American projectors, the optical sound head is now just something to slip through or go around so it is the same as for 35 or 35/70. Virtually all platters use drop in centerfeeds and can have dual purpose rollers so even that isn't such a big deal. As such, for the exhibitor, 70mm is only a $10K-15K per-screen question (presuming you already have a DTS player). As compared to going to something like DCinema...it is a bargin with much more bang for the buck and it actually improves the image rather than hold the status-quo Steve  |  IP: Logged Christian Appelt Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 505 From: Frankfurt, Germany Registered: Dec 2001 posted 12-25-2003 04:07 PM                     Thomas, you are right. I meant (but didn't write so) that back then no projectors existed in a large number of first run theatres. As for the editing equipment, I got that from an American Cinematographer article where it was mentioned that the workprint of EIGHTY DAYS had to be cut without editing equipment, in a manner like they cut the silent films. But memory may fool me, I will look it up ASAP.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 12-25-2003 11:24 PM                     The issue of dual inventory for 70mm prints is really a non-issue. Premiere class single screen theaters, twins or triples often have 70mm equipment installed on all auditoriums. Then you have the "megaplex" issue. Any movie "big" enough to warrant 70mm prints is likely to stick multiple prints of a film in any multiplex. Even if the biggest auditorium has a 70mm print, odds are extrememly likely there will be 2 or 3 other prints in 35mm playing in the same complex. Hell, the Carmike theater here in Lawton is only an 8-plex yet it commmonly gets 2 prints of big releases. It ALREADY has lost one if its LOTR: Return of the King prints due to four different X-Mas releases coming out. So, honestly I think the studios are crying big crocodile B.S. tears over print cost on that one. Finally, any auditorium big enough to show off 70mm is going to have lots more seats than many of the TINY shoebox sized theaters I see getting 35mm prints. The Central Mall theater here in town has several houses with only 80 to 90 seats each, yet they have 35mm prints playing on them. A DTS time coded 70mm should not cost anywhere near as much as a mag-striped 70mm print. It would seem pretty likely that a large auditorium with 500 seats would have a print cost per seat average that compares very nicely against putting a 35mm print in a tiny auditorium. [ 12-26-2003, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: Bobby Henderson ]  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-26-2003 02:28 PM                     70mm holds a special place in the hearts of its fans. It's like a mini religion. There's definitely a kind of a "messiah" thing going on. Listen to the fans and you get a sense that 70mm was a religious experience to behold (at least, for them) and then there are the feelings of sadness that it was over all too soon and frustration with the people who had the power to keep it going but chose to destroy it. And, through it all, even when faced with the historical facts surrounding the birth of 70mm and the evolutionary factors that brought about its demise, there is faith that 70mm will return someday. Going to see the occasional reissue of a 70mm classic can become somethign of a Mecca, with viewers traveling miles just to be there. Practically speaking 70mm is gone, if not forgotten. [ 12-26-2003, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: Manny Knowles ]  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-26-2003 08:36 PM                     Practically speaking it is far from gone there is pro bably more 70mm print stock used nowdays providing special venue than ever before  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-27-2003 05:20 AM                     Are you talking about IMAX or 5/70 ? In any event you are talking about "special venue" and for purposes of this discussion we are talking about 5/70 as an integral part of general release patterns as it was in its heyday. [ 12-27-2003, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: Manny Knowles ]  |  IP: Logged Robert Harris Film Handler Posts: 95 From: Bedford Hills, NY, USA Registered: May 2003 posted 12-27-2003 10:09 AM                     A few points... AFAIK there were no dye transfer VVLA prints. As with all non-recent 70mm prints, all VVLA were struck from the camera originals. There is no horrific cost differential between shooting 35 and 65 origination; portability is no longer a problem; pickups can be made in 35 if necessary as was done on Far and Away. There are currently two 65mm labs in the U.S. CFI (Technicolor) and, just recently, Fotokem. The decision to stay with 70mm projection for the Williamsburg project was predicated upon not only the fact that 70mm equipment was in place, but also that since the new 65mm dupe negs were being created optically (from digitally produced 8 perf interpositives) that the entire height of the 70mm frame could be used for a brighter and steadier image. In the past, the full VVLA image had been transferred to the 65 dupe and then cropped to the proper Vista 1.96:1 aspect ratio, thereby losing a great deal of optical real estate. RAH  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-27-2003 10:42 AM                     VVLA = ?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-27-2003 10:54 AM                     Manny we'll keep you in suspense on that term . Bob, What I was referring to was that it would be possible to manufacture VV I.B. release prints since its all 35mm stock. While the likelyhood of there ever being any 70mm I.B. is nill. Mark  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-27-2003 11:54 AM                     Mark, that is just EEEEEeeee-vil.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 12-27-2003 12:11 PM                    VVLA = VistaVision Large Aperture = horizontal-running 8-perf aka Lazy 8.  |  IP: Logged Robert Harris Film Handler Posts: 95 From: Bedford Hills, NY, USA Registered: May 2003 posted 12-27-2003 05:02 PM                     While the possibility of creating dye transfer VVLA prints was available, the numbers (financially) never worked out, and prints were derived from Onegs. RAH  |  IP: Logged Darren Briggs Master Film Handler Posts: 371 From: York, UK Registered: Dec 2001 posted 12-27-2003 06:08 PM                        Hi Robert, If you keep restoring them, I'll keep showing them as much as posible! Twenty 70mm shows in 13 months starting with roberts Lawrence restoration to the latest screening of Earthquake in Sensurround! There seem to be more and more people her in the U.K. and Europe that ive come into contact with since i've been screening 5/70. So if we all pester the distributors to make 70mm prints of the latest harry potter in DTS 70 etc, there may be a chance!? It was proven with the Titanic 70mm prints that they paid more than a 35mm print in a similar cinema. With good promotion and education of the viewing public, 70mm can be compared to the VHS(35mm) to DVD(70mm) quality. This is a simpe way of saying 70mm will give you a hugely better picture. Darren  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-27-2003 06:43 PM                     quote: if we all pester the distributors to make 70mm prints of the latest harry potter in DTS 70 etc, there may be a chance! Still not a believer but I have to agree...that movie would be a good candidate. Too bad they're already spending $$$ doing the IMAX thing.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-29-2003 11:06 AM                        Darren, Universal's struck 70mm prints of EARTHQUAKE? Mag or DTS? With or without the Sensurround generator? I assume you didn;t install the monster Cerwin-Vega subwoofers boxes all over the theatre, but was your house subbass system able to give a little bit of the earthquake effect? I would kill to be able to run that picture. Tell us more!  |  IP: Logged

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