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Topic: What is the value of a Simplex Standard?

Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 07-05-2004 01:19 AM

quote: Brad Miller
If we are going to run all week long with staggered showtimes on a delayed interlock, the film runs in a loop.

Um...how? Does Christie make an endless loop version of the AW3?

quote: Brad Miller
Remember, you can't let the film tail out.

Which reminds me of a question I forgot to ask: Why can't you let the film tail out?

quote: Joe Redifer
Florida sucks.

Amen! Can't wait to get out of this hell hole! [Big Grin]

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 07-05-2004 01:24 AM

quote: Thommy Procyk wrote:
You always have to assert your point with a rude comment or name-calling, don't you?

Of course! It helps drive the point home and enhances the overall post.

quote: Thommy also wrote:
All you have to do is add another roller cluster to the AW3 and presto.

No, you have to add another roller elsewhere as well. Can you figure out where?

quote: Thommy additionally said:
Oh no! The movie is over halfway finished! There's nothing we can do now except burn down the theater.

I tried, but Brad stopped me.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 07-05-2004 01:42 AM

I've ran 35mm with sprockets completely missing on one side too...but I did it on a platter! [Razz]

quote: Paul G. Thompson
You need to go back 30 years or so and catch the real experience of running a booth when we didn't have all the cushy shit and computers to do our job for us.

Why? The "real experience" is right now, not in the past. To me half of the fun is devising ways to automate the job in such a way that it gives a better performance than being manually ran by a human. Yup, it can be done. No need to live in the past. [thumbsup]

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 07-05-2004 02:22 AM

quote: Ken Lackner
Amen! Can't wait to get out of this hell hole!

Finally! Ken understands about life! [beer]

BTW Joe, WTF is a "Thommy"?

>>> Phil

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Dan Lyons
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 698
From: Seal Beach, CA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 07-05-2004 03:06 AM

quote: Paul G. Thompson
Some of us can completely thread a projector in it's entirety - while the damned thing is running.

ack!!!!

DO NOT PUT FINGERS IN RUNNING MACHINERY!!

I've seen what a projector can do to a toothbrush. Polyester dust is bad enough, but what a pain it would be to have to clean pieces of FINGER and BLOOD out of the projector. [thumbsdown]

Danny

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 07-05-2004 03:12 PM

Danny, I have had a few sprocket holes punched in my fingers through the years. But you have to watch where you put your fingers. It took me a little time to figure that out before I could completely get away with it. [Big Grin]

And, yes - you are absolutely correct on your comment. [beer]

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 07-05-2004 03:54 PM

Pffft! That's nothing. I can remove a crappy Simplex projector and install a Kinoton projector while the show is running!

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 07-05-2004 04:42 PM

Brad says:

quote: Brad Miller
Why? The "real experience" is right now, not in the past. To me half of the fun is devising ways to automate the job in such a way that it gives a better performance than being manually ran by a human. Yup, it can be done. No need to live in the past.

Who lives in the past? I sure as hell don't. I welcome new technology. I don't have to like it, but I'll still accept it and work with it.

I use me eperiences from the past for the future should it be needed.

Since you design a system, you can make it work from day one. So can I. So can many others.

There are two things about an automated booth:

1. The showmanship is gone. Most theaters today (with automated booths) don't even have curtains - or stage lights, fly lights, etc.

2. You scratch your ass in today's booths, punch a button and if the machine starts, the rest of the time most operators sit on their ass and thousands completely ignore their machines for the entire presentation. Laziness is taking place. If the machine does not start, the operators (for the most part) are too damned stupid to figure out what is wrong, or too lazy to correct it. They cancel the show and call a tech. I point out one theater that lost two days of shows because the damned exciter lamp burned out. A Regal house in Port Orchard, WA. To be more specific, it was House No. 5.

In a manual booth, you didn't have time to sit on your ass and watch TV. If those operators did, (and many did) the presentation will suffer.

People are getting too damned lazy in this age of technology. Lots of people in their teens and 20's don't even know how to count money. Thay have a stupid machine to do that for them.

Nope...I don't live in the past. For those who think I do, you don't know half the story. Your presumption is incorrect. [Wink]

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 07-05-2004 05:16 PM

quote: Paul G. Thompson
1. The showmanship is gone.

What a load of crap.

While this may be true in most theaters today, there are many theaters where automation enhances the showmanship. I'd like to see you run a complex program of slides, video, synchronized sound and light show, live introductory speech, curtains and multi-format film presentation without (1) another person in the booth or (2) some form of automation.

Keep in mind that showmanship means a smooth-running, quality experience, not a carnival midway.

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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 07-05-2004 05:23 PM

I certanely agree with Paul that much of the old-style showmanship is gone. But I do believe that manual c/o's is the superior way of conducting business.

But just because a booth is automated with 20 screens and all three digital formats does not mean that a projectionist should ever sit on his/her ass! A long time ago in another thread I posted the daily and weekly projectionist routine when I worked for Century.

As I previously stated, being a showman entails several things, for either manual arc/change-overs or automation!

A few examples of my encounters...

I received an emerengcy tech call to come and repair a Christie AW-3-5 that had several problems, among them the platter quitting during performance. Anyhow, a show was in progress when I got there, and the platter quit soon after my arrival. Rather than quitting the show and having a dark screen...I sat there hand winding the platter!

Other problems with that platter that would have resulted in a dark screen were several broken nutserst that had butchered jury-rigged repairs. A trip to Ace Hardware generated an insert that I was able to use to perform a satisfactory repair on one that had a chingered-out hole. Luckily my Alma-Mater was down the road, and one of my past professors was kind enough to loan me a nutsert-tool, and donated several nutserts to the cause! Being a showman=being resourceful and innovative!

I can go on and on about showmanship...but these are just a few examples that computer-based/non mechanical kids of todaycould not have the knowledge of how to handle!

Adam-what you just described in your last post sounds like a POWER-POINT presentation!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 07-05-2004 05:27 PM

Thank you Adam. Fact is Paul, the better automation systems today can do A BETTER JOB than having some guy sit there and manually push all of the buttons. It's like having someone with 10 hands to hit everything at precisely the correct instant, and it's all custom programmable so that every single show is dead on perfect in whatever way you so desire. Just because most theaters today don't put in curtains and such doesn't mean that automation can't run it either. In fact at the theater pictured we DO have curtains and the CA21 automations DO control it at precisely the programmed instant desired. It's almost like people who have had to work in old carbon changeover booths resent the fact that automation today can outperform their manual work. The only thing I will give you is that the overwhelming majority of theaters do not have such automation and that in most cases the presentation and "showmanship" is lost, but you should not make blanket statements that you or any human can do a better job than automation can, because that is simply wrong (unless the person setting it up is a bonehead and doesn't know what he is doing). My CA21s with their custom programming could outperform anyone's manual hands day in and day out...on every screen...for 24 hours a day...day after day...in any size complex. [Wink]

And for the record, my CA21s will blast alarms 4 minutes before the show is supposed to start. It's my custom "threading alarm" at work, just in case the projectionist is dealing with another screen and is distracted or somehow forgot to thread the next show for whatever reason. Further, if the projector isn't threaded by showtime it will sound another alarm. Heck there's even alarms in these suckers to let the projectionist know if the xenon failed to strike! The automation is designed to ensure that the projectionist doesn't screw up, and it works better than any human in keeping track of things. While automation isn't designed to replace the operator from being there, it certainly is a welcome addition to a professional booth as the ultimate failsafe short of hiring a projectionist to sit by every single screen for every minute of the show, which is not economically smart. It's new technology and it doesn't bite. [Cool]

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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 07-05-2004 05:31 PM

Brad says that automation can do a better job of handling lights, curtains...etc, etc.

Brad...like I've never seen an automation system that did not properly operate? [Confused]

Brad...sounds like you just don't know how to do it all manually? [Eek!]

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 07-05-2004 05:34 PM

Will, I have ran my share of manual booths. But that did NOT make me a better showman, nor did it enhance my presentation. Your examples keep pointing out resorcefulness of the tech and basic things like spinning a platter to keep the show on screen. So what? Big deal, every theater right down to the local kid at the godzillaplex making minimum wage has done things like that to keep the show on screen.

I think you are confusing "keeping the show on screen" with "showman". Being a good showman in the booth's terms is moreso related to the proper timing of things, not just "keeping the show on screen".

My point still remains that having to do everything manually with only 2 hands is not the superior way of running a show. Even Northpark was fully manual (although platter ran), and I can tell you it was impossible to hit the sound, various lighting systems, douser, etc all at the ideal time. Nobody's arms were 20 feet long!!! Had there been a suitable automation such as a custom programmed CA21 there, the presentation would have been improved due to better timing.

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 07-05-2004 05:43 PM

As much as really enjoyed the days of changeovers and carbon arcs, I can't agree with Will's assertion that that manual changeovers is the way to go... and yes, Will... I can time a changeover down to the end of the reel as well as many others here. The fact is that the film was designed to go from the last frame of one reel into the first frame of the next. I-D frames notwithstanding, loading a print on a platter gives every audience that very show... every single time. No human is going to do that on a long term basis, and "projectionists artistry" be damned... it was never intended as part of the show.

That being said, I can take a hunk of electronics and teach it to handle lights, curtains, machine starts, lens and masking changes, temperature, ventillation, volume and sound formats EXACTLY as I would, were I standing at the port..... and it will run MY show MY way each and every time the button is pressed. Best of all.. I can teach a bazillion screens to do the same thing... something I can't do without the automation. It's a philosophy I applied to broadcast automation... and I made a lot of it sound pretty darned good.

As paul says, I don't have to like it... and the sentimental part of me doesn't... I still like big transformers, chokes, capacitors and mercury vapor rectifiers... and I really miss the days when you had to pull the finals out of some transmitters with a fork lift, and a 1,000 watt transmitter was 8-feet wide. On the other hand... jobs for that kind of technician are getting a bit hard to come by... and I haven't seen an ad in the papers for a projectionist with manual changeover experience lately, either!

Much of this probably repeats what Brad just said... but I'd say he's got some good points on this one.

OH... hey, Paul... next time you're down this way, I'd like to see you load up a running projector. THAT's something I've never even tried!!!.. and I thought I'd done most of it! [Confused]

Damn, guy... you ARE good!

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David Favel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 764
From: Ashburton, New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 07-05-2004 05:56 PM

Based on Brad's praise, I installed CA21's.
Every show is timed to perfection.
The digital ads start exactly on time.
Presisly as they finish the first trailer comes on screen at a comfortable sound.
Change to scope is seamless, with a corresponding volume change.
We even programmed in intermissions with a pre determined length.
The showmanship is in the programming and cue placement, however I always check that the image on screen is the best we can give.

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