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Author Topic: horz scratches Andres Briano Expert Film Handler Posts: 162 From: Buenos Aires, Argentina Registered: Jan 2008 posted 04-02-2008 02:04 PM                        Hi guys, With all due respect to all... Down here we have been having the same problem for quite some time now. Without having the bolt excessively tight, the film might be left riding on the flange after careless threading. This only happens on the take up arm roller. This will cause emulsion scratches that are not horizontal, but rather with a 20° angle, when you see them on the screen. The scratches do not remain in the same place, but rather look as if they were coming down the screen (from top to bottom that is) and some of them are so thin that they are not green at all, but rather blackish. In most cases, when a splice goes through the roller, it corrects itself. However we have had entire films scratched like this. I do not know if this is Christie´s fault or not, but this has happened in different booths in different countries, that´s saying something, isn´t it? BTW nothing more than detecting and removing them can be done about careless operators. I took the liberty to add my two cents, since this thread had not been locked. Cheers, Andrés  |  IP: Logged Michael Brown Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1522 From: Bradford, England Registered: May 2001 posted 04-02-2008 03:46 PM                     If Joseph wrote with correct capitalization of letters, correct sentence structure and correct use of punctuation, then maybe we could figure out what he was talking about. quote: Andres Briano Without having the bolt excessively tight, the film might be left riding on the flange after careless threading So the problen only exists if you thread carelessly? - So don't thread carelessly, double check your work. Is that the moral of the story?  |  IP: Logged Andres Briano Expert Film Handler Posts: 162 From: Buenos Aires, Argentina Registered: Jan 2008 posted 04-02-2008 04:35 PM                        The moral of the story, Michael, is this: no matter how good you are, you cannot be at the theatre 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. So, you will need to have different operators. One of them, will almost inevitably, turn out to be a f**k-up. Film can get scratched in the manner previously discussed in an Autowind 3. That is a fact. This is my statement. I am not defending the guy that started this thread. Greetings, Andrés  |  IP: Logged Ken McFall Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 615 From: Haringey, London. Registered: Apr 2001 posted 04-02-2008 04:38 PM                     quote: Michael Brown If Joseph wrote with correct capitalization of letters, correct sentence structure and correct use of punctuation, then maybe we could figure out what he was talking about. I don't really feel such comments are fair or justified. We don't all speak the same first language or have the same writing abilities. You only have to read some posts to see that people make mistakes. I am generally impressed with the efforts of those that post on Film-Tech where English is clearly not their first language. I doubt I'd do any better if the position was reversed. So instead of knocking their efforts a little appreciation of their efforts would reflect better on you.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-02-2008 08:06 PM                        It's good to cut people who don't speak English some slack, but Joseph CAN write good sentences and so forth...he's just too lazy to use the keyboard properly. Besides, he's probably long gone by now.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-03-2008 12:25 AM                     quote: Andres Briano no matter how good you are, you cannot be at the theatre 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. So, you will need to have different operators. One of them, will almost inevitably, turn out to be a f**k-up. That is absolutely true. The moral of the story is not only to check your work, but to terminate anyone who doesn't. Regarding Joseph, his mastery of grammer tells me he is an 18 year old who is trying to do a good job and thinks he has found the cause of a problem and is trying to do good by sharing his findings. However after working with these platters for 20 years, that roller is not to blame for "horizontal scratches". That simply cannot happen from that roller. There would HAVE to be at least some angle to them, such as what Andres described a few posts above. This is why I would like for him to upload a picture of the physical film showing the scratches. Once he posts the pictures of the film...and preferably also some shots of his projection setup...the outstanding odds are that we can point at the cause of his problem. Now if it should turn up that his scratches are not in fact horizontal but are diagonal to some degree, then he will have learned a valuable lesson in troubleshooting to always be extremely specific.  |  IP: Logged Andres Briano Expert Film Handler Posts: 162 From: Buenos Aires, Argentina Registered: Jan 2008 posted 04-03-2008 09:31 PM                        I will look through my theatres to see if I can find an old scratched trailer. If I´m lucky enough to find one, I will post pictures of the angled scratch I am talking about. I assume it is the same one Joseph is referring to. Andrés  |  IP: Logged Joseph Matteo Film Handler Posts: 26 From: fullerton ca usa Registered: Dec 2006 posted 04-04-2008 01:51 AM                     well sorry for the grammer issue i have been running for the last 7 days with no time for myself.Brad 20yrs in this business congrats!i became a union member in 1971. It seems you favor the Aw3 thats good.The problem comes from the quick load take up roller it seems that when the operator loads the film to the take up platter and pulls on the slack to let the platter take up it is at this point that the film can slip out of roller.that is because the roller no longer has the 2 little white retainers the old design had.So the film gets loaded he startes the show turns off the booth light(not seeing the cocked roller) and away he goes.But little does he know the film is being scratched but he will not see it because the scratch is created after it passes the gate and goes to the take up platter. brad i don't know how many screens you run but i have to deal with a 25 plex and a 20 plex and believe me this is a real problem be thankful you don't have to deal with this.I am hopeful that the video will make this issue more clear.and maybe help others as to not become a statistic joe  |  IP: Logged Patrick Dunn Expert Film Handler Posts: 120 From: newark, DE, United states Registered: Aug 2005 posted 04-04-2008 10:31 PM                        It's reasons like that are why I double check the projector after I thread, than once again before I start the show. That way if i made a mistake or if anything looks weird like a roller is at a strange angle I'll catch it before I start the show. We don't have that same type of platter system, we have strong platters. But every now and than when i thread I'll notice that after I set the platter to rewind the film the tension wont pull the roller to the right angle it needs to be, so i have to do it by hand so it wont scratch or damage the print.  |  IP: Logged Muhammad Husni Film Handler Posts: 6 From: Petaling Jaya, Malaysia Registered: Jul 2007 posted 04-09-2008 07:42 AM                     Around 2 years ago, I've been in those group of never-check-the-projector-after-threading up-the-film projectionist. And somehow all of the projectionists in that room were questioned due to film scratch. What my leader do was, he come out with a log book to monitor every single screen, every single show and who thread up the film. Later on we found out that it was mostly on my session that the film get scratched. After I have learned my lesson there were no more film scratch.  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 04-10-2008 10:39 AM                     Muhammad, your leader is pretty smart to check after his people and keep a log, it makes finding the source of problems a lot easier and makes it more difficult for the worker to deny what he did incorrectly.  |  IP: Logged Andres Briano Expert Film Handler Posts: 162 From: Buenos Aires, Argentina Registered: Jan 2008 posted 04-14-2008 03:48 PM                        With all due apologies for the delay, I present you with pictures of the infamous (not) horizontal, emulsion scratch. Disclaimer: These pics were extremely hard to take (however lousy you find them), so keep that in mind before bitching about their quality. I had to have this old ad scratched intentionally. I wasn´t able to locate any already scratched. As you can see, the scratch (on the emusion side) is slightly skewed and not horizontal. Out of all of them, only a few are deep enough to be green in color. Like stated before, usually the film will seat itself properly once a splice goes through the roller. Having said that, it´s only fair to warn you that entire prints have been damaged in this manner. PS: Do not bother asking me for the girl´s phone number. I do not have access to it!  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-14-2008 08:58 PM                     Hmmm, although I've ran films on these style of rollers for 10 years and never had this problem I'm still a little curious here. I see how the scratches in the picture above could've been caused by the top edge of the roller and the way the film is dragging across the roller flange, but where are the scratches that should be on the picture edge of the film from the bottom side of the roller? The film had no scratches on it and you scratched it in this manner? How many times did you run the film misthreaded on that roller like this?  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-14-2008 10:52 PM                        Those scratches look more like the film is being dragged across the edge of the platter on take-up (with the soundtrack down).  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 04-15-2008 10:40 AM                     What I call platter hash, Mike's dead on.  |  IP: Logged

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