Film-Tech Cinema Systems
  Home     Products     Store     Forum     Warehouse     Contact Us    
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » horz scratches (Page 5)

 
This topic comprises 6 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6   
Author Topic: horz scratches
Tim Lewis
Film Handler

Posts: 12
From: Okatie, SC, US
Registered: Dec 2006

- posted 04-24-2008 03:55 AM      Profile for Tim Lewis   Email Tim Lewis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
ok, big update. i went in this evening and told my employee that worked today about all this and drilled it into him about how he must pay attention to this (and of course i have always told them to watch out for this specific roller because it swivels so much), and as we're checking all the take up rollers, low and behold, #1 is riding off the roller. it was well past halfway through the film, so once in that position, it can obviously stay there through an entire run.

so at the end of the night, i made up a virgin trailer ring and ran it through with the film riding up off of the roller where it shouldn't be, and sure enough, it scratched the film in the exact manner that i've been having problems with and that others on this thread have reported. also, it had no problem going through the entire trailer ring and staying misthreaded.

now, referring back to my earlier post about Jim Dukes noticing the wear marks on the bracket. after his visit, he sent me these metal bracket extender thingies, and my tech and i installed a few of them (in what seemed to be the most sensible manner because they came with no instructions), but they didn't do any good in preventing the film from riding up. however, tonight i did some experimenting with those "extenders" and found that if i put them at a different angle, they worked brilliantly, and i could not for the life of me get the film to ride up off the roller. so it looks like there may be a solution.
i suggest that anyone who is having this problem call up Christie and order part #196498-001 for however many platters you have, and i'll try to get some pictures up as soon as i can of the correct way (and my incorrect way) to install them.

so, is it technically a misthread/lack of observational skills by the projectionist? i'd say yes.
but could Christie have designed this part so it wasn't so easy to literally destroy a print from one mistake? i'd like to think so.

 |  IP: Logged
Andres Briano
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 162
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Registered: Jan 2008

- posted 04-24-2008 09:08 AM      Profile for Andres Briano   Author's Homepage   Email Andres Briano   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Joe Redifer
Are you the main manager at this complex? What do the higher-ups have to say when you try to get them more $$$? If they are blocking you then it is ultimately the fault of upper management. Are you an assistant manager? Does the main GM just shrug you off? Lots of theater managers like to run the place as cheaply as possible so they can get a bonus, so I'm never surprised when raises are given out sparsely or when wages are fairly low to begin with.
Joe, I am Technical Manager for Latinamerica for this multiplex company. Technically I am in charge of all booth technical aspects. I´m also in charge of some personnel issues, but not of pay rises. When I go knocking on the door of the person who green lights this kind of thing, it´s (almost always) the same struggle. Technically.

quote: Tim Lewis
...so at the end of the night, i made up a virgin trailer ring and ran it through with the film riding up off of the roller where it shouldn't be, and sure enough, it scratched the film in the exact manner that i've been having problems with and that others on this thread have reported. also, it had no problem going through the entire trailer ring and staying misthreaded.
THANK YOU....! [beer] So, in the end, it turns out I´m not [Eek!] crazy! [Big Grin] (I was beginning to doubt that myself).

FIRST Lesson Learnt (for me at least): Some take up arm rollers on some AW3s but not all of them out there will stay misthreaded through the entire show.

SECOND Lesson Learnt: Not all of the AW3s out there produce the same damage to film. Some are more intense than others.(Probably having to do with the manufacturing of the actual roller. The obvious reason would be the finishing of the flanges would not be equally smooth on all of the rollers that come out of the factory.

Tim, pics of that Christie part will be welcome whenever you have the chance.

Andrés

 |  IP: Logged
Tim Lewis
Film Handler

Posts: 12
From: Okatie, SC, US
Registered: Dec 2006

- posted 04-28-2008 02:25 AM      Profile for Tim Lewis   Email Tim Lewis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
ok Andres (and everyone else) i was finally able to take some pictures...sorry for the delay, but i recently broke my camera and had to borrow someone else's.

anyway first up is a shot of the two wear marks i found on the brackets from the film riding up:
-

next is this new "bracket extender" part by itself (part #196498-001):
-

now we have how the new part fits onto the bracket:
-

and here is the INCORRECT way i originally installed it. note how the new part fits up nice and snug with the bracket, seems reasonable, but this positioning makes the part useless:
-

here is the correct way to position it. i found it works anywhere from the 4 to 6 o' clock position:
-

here's a shot of the back. this back piece seems to be the bit that actually pushes the film back down on the roller and doesn't allow it to ride up:
-

and finally, the new setup in action:
-

 |  IP: Logged
Andres Briano
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 162
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Registered: Jan 2008

- posted 05-08-2008 05:30 PM      Profile for Andres Briano   Author's Homepage   Email Andres Briano   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Tim,
Thanks for the pictures. [thumbsup] Very explicit. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I have been working in a little town in the middle of Brazil.
Have you got any idea how much does the part cost? It seems simple enough to replicate. Doesn´t it?

Take care,
Andrés

 |  IP: Logged
Tim Lewis
Film Handler

Posts: 12
From: Okatie, SC, US
Registered: Dec 2006

- posted 05-09-2008 02:55 PM      Profile for Tim Lewis   Email Tim Lewis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
you're welcome Andres, i hope it helps...i'm not sure how much that part costs, Jim Dukes from Christie personally sent those to us gratis, but i can't imagine they'd be that expensive, it's just a small piece of metal...i guess if you knew anyone with metalworking skills, you could have some of your own made.

 |  IP: Logged
Andres Briano
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 162
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Registered: Jan 2008

- posted 05-09-2008 05:19 PM      Profile for Andres Briano   Author's Homepage   Email Andres Briano   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tim,
The real issue (for me) is not the cost of the part itself, but the shipping (to Argentina) and customs duties. That alone is often up to 300% of the value of the piece. [Frown]
You can´t survive in a projection environment in the ass-end of the world if you don´t befriend all sort of characters (metal workers included)! [thumbsup]
Have a nice weekend!
Andrés

 |  IP: Logged
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 05-09-2008 08:05 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
5 pages of this silliness and I STILL have to ask...what is so hard about having the projectionists check their threading before they start the movie?????????

 |  IP: Logged
Andres Briano
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 162
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Registered: Jan 2008

- posted 05-10-2008 04:21 PM      Profile for Andres Briano   Author's Homepage   Email Andres Briano   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On 04-03-2008, Brad, you quoted me saying...:

quote: Andres Briano
no matter how good you are, you cannot be at the theatre 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. So, you will need to have different operators. One of them, will almost inevitably, turn out to be a f**k-up.
...and then you added:

quote: Brad Miller
That is absolutely true. The moral of the story is not only to check your work, but to terminate anyone who doesn't.
That is why "telling you staff to check their threading" is not infalible. (At least not for us who, unlike you, have human operators! [Wink]

Call me lazy, but I rather spend $300 in retrofiting all my tension arm rollers with a bull [bs] piece of metal (and thus getting rid of the problem forever) than having to endlessly repeat it to every new 18-year-old operator I get every three months in one or the other theatre.

Besides compare the price of a print (that is all it takes) to the price of all the retrofits I need...

"Whatever can go wrong will go wrong, and at the worst possible time, in the worst possible way" Murphy´s Law

 |  IP: Logged
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 05-10-2008 05:49 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Andres, if you take care of your projectionists both monetarily and in regards to their work environment and general treatment, you won't have them quitting on you. People quit jobs because they are either treated poorly or are given a shit wage. As far as someone not checking their work, terminate them! This isn't rocket science.

Sorry you feel a piece of metal is the solution to your problems. Fact of the matter is that if you are permitting people to work your booth who have to have that piece of metal to keep from scratching prints, your presentation isn't that good anyway because if they are making those kind of sloppy mistakes, your prints, projectors and general equipment is being neglected too.

When you find someone good, TAKE GOOD CARE OF THEM! You will find your entire presentation as well as the care given to the equipment will be vastly superior than what you have now.

 |  IP: Logged
Andres Briano
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 162
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Registered: Jan 2008

- posted 05-10-2008 06:05 PM      Profile for Andres Briano   Author's Homepage   Email Andres Briano   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Point taken, Brad.
However, that is where you and I differ. If there is a chance of a print getting scratched, (and once more, there is), then I´d rather solve the issue. It´s better to be safe than sorry, and it not necessarily has to do with the staff.
Keep in mind that not all of us have a say when it comes to operator salaries.
But anyway, I´m not saying anything new here, so I´ll stop now.

Andrés "I object!" Briano

 |  IP: Logged
Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

- posted 05-10-2008 06:12 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How have you solved the issue of them threading out of frame? I know they do. Often.

 |  IP: Logged
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 05-10-2008 08:13 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
If you don't have a say in operator salaries, then you need to make up the difference with extra respect, appreciation and a good work environment. You should also put more effort into finding people who do the job because they ENJOY it and improving your training. After all you train them to make sure the movie is in focus, right? Why can't you train them to look at this one silly roller that somehow your crew keeps misthreading (although I've never seen it happen before).

These things are entirely in your hands. I've trained 17 year old kids who could run the booth better than people who have been doing it for 30 years, so the age is no excuse.

 |  IP: Logged
Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

- posted 05-11-2008 04:02 AM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andres,

To put what Brad was alluding to a different way:
You're looking at the possible scratching being the cause of the problem when the root of your problem is having crappy workers. It's like putting a band-aid on a cut and acting like you're ok even though you know the infection already throughout your body.

 |  IP: Logged
Joseph Matteo
Film Handler

Posts: 26
From: fullerton ca usa
Registered: Dec 2006

- posted 05-11-2008 07:18 PM      Profile for Joseph Matteo   Email Joseph Matteo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
posted on you tube for your enjoyment audio might be low but perhaps this might clarify what tried to explain in past posts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVADTNyMalw

 |  IP: Logged
Andres Briano
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 162
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Registered: Jan 2008

- posted 05-12-2008 05:34 PM      Profile for Andres Briano   Author's Homepage   Email Andres Briano   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Joe Redifer
How have you solved the issue of them threading out of frame? I know they do. Often.
Tell you what, Joe: Next time you are sitting in one of my theatres and the film starts out of frame, PM me. I´ll treat you to dinner. [Wink]

Brad, Chris, I understand perfectly what you are saying. It´s just that even with excellent training (which is available), my operators are only human. And humans err. There´s no two ways about it.

I am honestly not saying this to annoy you. I have nothing but the utmost respect for both of you. But it´s just that I don´t agree with you. If things CAN go bad, they will at some point. It´s better to be safe than sorry. Operators will always change. The machine won´t (and that is wishful thinking).

I hope you can understand what I think and not take it disrespectfully.

Andrés

 |  IP: Logged


All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 6 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6   
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
- Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.