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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » 3D Coming back to film? (Page 23)

 
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Author Topic: 3D Coming back to film?
Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002


 - posted 01-29-2010 11:49 AM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
2-projector booths didn't come up in the conversation.... and I didn't think about it. Good catch, Gordon.

OK... maybe some small-town theatres, already hanging on by a thread won't be able to do this... you can't fix everything. But I have a drive-in that's maybe in the upper 50%, performance wise. Even being seasonal, I could (and would) do this in a heartbeat, if I can find a workable answer to the screen issue.

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Tony Ratcliff
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 216
From: Madison, IN, USA
Registered: Mar 2002


 - posted 01-29-2010 04:42 PM      Profile for Tony Ratcliff   Email Tony Ratcliff   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good thought Jack.

The Tech 3-D would be a good solution for a drive-in, if it worked, since digital isn't quite ready for drive-ins yet.

If someone could find a way to do 3-D at a drive-in, that would be awesome.

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Ian Parfrey
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1049
From: Imbil Australia 26 deg 27' 42.66" S 152 deg 42' 23.40" E
Registered: Feb 2009


 - posted 01-29-2010 04:54 PM      Profile for Ian Parfrey   Email Ian Parfrey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thats my thoughts too...but wouldn't the windscreen futz up the polarisation?

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted 02-05-2010 03:12 AM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One of my auditoriums will be installing the new
Technicolor 3D system in March. They gave me
some sample glasses, which IMO look exactly
like the ones used for Disney Digital/Real D
 -
(and apparantly they are, technically, the same)

FUN FOTO:
While cleaning up backstage last year I found a
couple of NATURALVISION polarizers from the 1950's.
 -

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Steven J Hart
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: WALES, ND, USA
Registered: Mar 2004


 - posted 02-05-2010 07:33 AM      Profile for Steven J Hart   Author's Homepage   Email Steven J Hart   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This system will leave my theater out in the cold miserable 2D world just like Digital 3D. My biggest film ever was Titanic and we didn't have 2000 people attend over a two week run. The town we're located in only has 2500 residents. If they would sell me the lens, maybe I could make it work but there is no way we can afford $12,000 per year when we gross less than $100,000 on tickets and concessions in a typical year!

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Adam Fraser
Master Film Handler

Posts: 499
From: Houghton Lake, MI, USA
Registered: Dec 2001


 - posted 02-06-2010 08:20 AM      Profile for Adam Fraser   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Fraser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just checked out their website the other day, my feelings are similar to Steven's. I don't mind buying a lens even at $5000+. But a $12,000/yr licensing fee if I play 6 films in 3D in a year? Seems a little far fetched for any small town theatre owner.

I would rather pay the same amount per year over a 7 or 8+ year loan and get digital 3D. Which is probably what we will do in the next couple years. Why would anyone do this over just getting a $75,000-100,000 loan to get digital 3D, even the multiplexes?

The economics of this system just do not work for any small theatre.

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted 02-06-2010 09:09 AM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One thing I haven't figured out or gotten an answer on yet
is how I'm supposed to run the screenvision ads & coming
attractions trailers once the system is installed.

I'm not sure Technicolor or the studios are going to go
to the extra expense of printing "3-D comptable" flat
trailers, or will they?

OR- - I assume the 3D over/under images have a slight
lateral displacement from each other. So I'm wondering
what happens if you just project a "standard" frame
through the lens. Will it just expand the top part
of the frame "up" and the bottom half "down" and
the image will wind up looking normal since there's
no lateral difference? I'm trying to get an answer
from my supplier on this.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-06-2010 09:38 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steven and Adam: Look at it this way. You're going to be charging a 3 or 4 dollar premium on 3-D tickets. You could choose to play only the major blockbusters in 3-D. Marginal movies could still be played in 2-D (if you even choose to play them).

If you sold, say 1000 tickets and charged $4 extra for 3-D, and paid half of the premium to the film company as rental, you would still have $2000 left. The 3-D price would be a wash.

Still it seems dumb to flush $12,000 a year when we're probably all going to need to someday embrace digital anyway if we want to stay in business.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-06-2010 09:48 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A $3-4 surcharge for 3D would be a tough sell in many communities. It could represent a 50%+ increase in the ticket price for some theatres.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 02-06-2010 10:15 AM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No. The "digital reality" is a myth. We will probably still be 40-60% film in 10 years even if the projectors were free.

Think not? See the complaining above about the $12,000 for Tech 3D, which, compared to digital, is a free gift. Louis

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Adam Fraser
Master Film Handler

Posts: 499
From: Houghton Lake, MI, USA
Registered: Dec 2001


 - posted 02-06-2010 04:16 PM      Profile for Adam Fraser   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Fraser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I dont mind large upfront expenses. I just hate paying licensing fees, mortgages, rents, etc.

I just think they could have thought out a better strategy to charge for this system.

I would be perfectly happy paying a few thousand for the lens, a few thousand for the screen, and maybe a "3-D print" surcharge in the way of a 5 to 10% higher film rental.

As the pricing is now, it just seems more wise to get a loan for a digital 3-D setup and at least own something in the end, at a similar annual cost.

We will be waiting though until all of these competing systems flush themselves out. Could be 2 years, could be 10 years.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 02-06-2010 04:24 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The cost for the 3D is less with Tech. This does not include the acquisition cost, hardware/software upgrades, maintenance for the underlying digital projector; all of which are paid yearly.

Don't forget that Tech is less but does not suffer any quality losses. Louis

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-06-2010 07:25 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have two customers that will be doing this. I have to go for training very soon at Technicolor...

Mark

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Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 02-07-2010 01:02 AM      Profile for Julio Roberto     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Digital also has a "per 3D film" cost one way or another. First, higher watt lamps/higher electricity. Then, per-person royalty with RealD/Sony or glasses cost with other systems (i.e. clean and replace Dolby/XpanD glasses, batteries or purchase Master image one's etc).

You need to factor the upfront "cost" of say $100k also carries a significant financing (interests) yearly cost. You either lose the money the bank will give you yearly if you left it invested or you'll have to pay a yearly interest if you borrow it. This is money you "dump" to the bank instead of to Technicolor any way. Perhaps get a modest profit. But if you couldn't show any 3D film before and you cover your cost, what's to lose? The 12K you are "giving" Technicolor you wouldn't have been able to raise w/o the 3D surcharge to begin with ...

It's true that worst-case scenario with Tech3D is not very good for the small theaters they are trying to serve. Worst case scenario is when you can only show 6 3D shows a year and you can't get around 2000 people on each show. I wouldn't do it unless I KNEW I could get some 8 films a year or so and get the clean $12000 out of surcharges. Then, it just becomes a way to slightly increase the audience to get them to buy more popcorn and keep the competition at bay.

Also, you agree to this pricing scheme for 3 years. Who says that in your 4th year perhaps you could get a better deal from Tech 3D or move to digital then. 3 years from now, the digital equipment may be cheaper (better be) or better quality (4K) which will allow you to give your audiences a better experience over 35mm instead of the same-or-worse from a 2K investment.

I do think the Tech3D scheme is not the best there is and certainly a bit high. If I were them, I would've cap at $10k a year and allow other pricing schemes.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-07-2010 04:50 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Reports from people that have seen it say it's actually much better than digital 3-D because it's considerably brighter and of course with film the colors will not wash out.

Mark

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