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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Sound leaking from behind screen (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Sound leaking from behind screen
Cameron Glendinning
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 845
From: West Ryde, Sydney, NSW Australia
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted 02-19-2010 06:25 PM      Profile for Cameron Glendinning   Email Cameron Glendinning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, The main issue to find out is what is the actual problem. There are a variety of different types of sound leakage and different causes.

Is it shake?
Is it audible bass?
Is it midrange?
Is it full range?

Is the building full concrete construction?

The worst case of sound leakage I ever found was caused by a small DRILLED hole in the backstage wall caused by an intercom installation. It cost $5 to fix with a tube of silicone sealant.

Another common cause is that speaker boxs vibrate, these vibrations are transfered into the walls and then can be reproduced through thin materials, ie air con ducting, plaster walls or windows. Think of two tin cans on a string with the role of the string being played by the wall.

The only perfect solution is to build a free floating room within the room, starting with a floating floor and were no parts of the inside walls or frames touch the outer walls. Think double glassing windows, think expensive.

The main aim is that when the soundwaves are transfered into vibrations when they hit the wall, they then transfere back to sound waves in the air between the walls, they are now so weak they will not make it through the next wall. The air gap is very important.

So when you do go backstage, do the cheap things first, check for cracks and gaps in the backstage walls/ roof and place rubber mats under the speakers and sub woofers and see what happens. Adding fiberglass on the back wall if there isn't any will make your theater sound MUCH better but possably wont effect the leakage.

Anyway has switching off the sub fixed the problem at all?

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 02-19-2010 06:25 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Richard May
She has cursed the staff out a number of times
..get her for trespassing then on your property for she has no right to do this...

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-19-2010 06:44 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
The solution here is to kick her out. Sorry lady, but you're asking for something impossible to resolve.

Or you could handle it like I would. I would setup an automated system to power on the system and have a pre-recorded B A N G to go off about 3 times a night at random times. Literally, push your system as loud as you can using every channel for about 2 seconds, and also preferably in the neighboring two theaters as well. When she complains, just tell her "lady that is impossible because the entire staff was GONE at these times of the night and all of the systems shut off". She will move out on her own soon thereafter.

If you don't like that solution, then I think we need to bring in a pro to figure out how to get her to shut up or leave. Joe???

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Richard May
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1057
From: Floral Park, NY USA
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted 02-19-2010 06:47 PM      Profile for Richard May   Email Richard May   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Jeremy, that's her. Switching off the sub hasn't helped that much. It sounds like it's more of a muffled full range sound, if that makes any sense. I think building a wall and ceiling inside the existing one will help a lot. My main concern is what type of insulation to use.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 02-19-2010 08:31 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does seem odd that an actress is bugged by playback of her trade??

Again, she should help pay for any work done. . . it is only right. The previous tenant(s) did not have this trouble. Louis

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Cameron Glendinning
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 845
From: West Ryde, Sydney, NSW Australia
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted 02-19-2010 09:15 PM      Profile for Cameron Glendinning   Email Cameron Glendinning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Richard May
I think building a wall and ceiling inside the existing one will help a lot. My main concern is what type of insulation to use.
What materials are used in the buildings construction? is iyt a mix of concrete, brick and drywall?

Ok its a full range muffled sound, If there is any treble at all it is a physical hole or crack that the sound will be travelling through.

A muffled full range sound with no treble implies to me that the sound is travelling through vibrations through the walls and being reproduced by materials inside the unit.

Now if you spend lots of money (plus close the screen while they work)on a 3 layered soundproof drywall and ceiling, the best insulation is the air gap, so make sure that the new wall and its supports, does not in anyway touch the old wall and ceiling.

If you build this wall perfectly and the trouble is caused by transfere of vibration of the speakers directly into the floor first then through the walls, there will be absolutely no improvement in leakage problem.

As I said before, start with the cheap options first, look for cracks and make sure you use rubber mats (or even tennis balls somehow?) to isolate the vibrations from the speaker boxes into the floors or screen frame first.

As for insulation (3.5 kilograms per square meter is a good start), place it on the inside the cinema side of the wall so that your audience will get the THX like sounding results. ie fiberglass, multi layer wall, air gap then existing walls.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-19-2010 10:55 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Louis Bornwasser
Does seem odd that an actress is bugged by playback of her trade??
Being a professional actress she knows or should know that there are loud sounds in movie theaters. It is part and parcel of the movie business ever since Al Jolson appeared on screen. Living directly next door to a movie theater she should EXPECT to hear loud sounds. If the movie theater was there before she moved in to the apartment she must have had knowledge of what her neighbor's business was. She has no grounds to complain and she certainly does not have the right to cuss at theater employees.

I live right next to an airport. Literally.

 -

My house is less than 300 yards from the runway. You can sit at my dining room table, look out the window and watch jets take off while you eat dinner.

 -

The airport was there before we moved in. We knew about it when we bought the house. We have limited room to complain about airplane noise unless it is an extraordinary circumstance. In fact, if I didn't think airplanes were cool I wouldn't have moved in here at all!

If Patricia Clarkson, who should know about movie theaters, moves into an apartment next door to an existing movie theater she should know what she is likely to hear. If she doesn't like that she should not have moved in.

Her trying to cuss out theater employees is about as sensible as if I tried to cuss out the air traffic controllers! [Wink]

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 02-20-2010 12:25 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Celebrities are definitely a spoiled bunch: want it all for nothing.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 02-20-2010 01:40 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've landed my Cessna 219 at that airport. Louis

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-20-2010 01:45 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
ERI ?? Cool! [Smile]

You could taxi over and park in my driveway next time. I'm sure the neighbors won't mind! [Big Grin]

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Martin Brooks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 900
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 03-05-2010 11:43 AM      Profile for Martin Brooks   Author's Homepage   Email Martin Brooks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Are we talking about the theatres at North Shore Towers?

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-05-2010 12:14 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
She moved ON TOP OF A FREAKIN THEATRE!

Brad has the right idea -- convince the bitch that she's crazy. [thumbsup]

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Richard May
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1057
From: Floral Park, NY USA
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted 03-05-2010 01:45 PM      Profile for Richard May   Email Richard May   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The theater owner hired a sound engineer to check it out. What he found was the lower frequencies coming through. He gave us some tips on lowering the noise. Some of which is what I suggested....building another wall and ceiling behind the screen, raising the stage speakers to get them off the floor like some here have said. We will do what we can but she will never be happy. We found out a couple of other things too. One good, one bad. The bad thing is that NYC changed the way they handle sound complaints. She no longer has to prove that the sound is over a certain level. If she complains, the police will come and check it out and write a ticket. It doesn't matter that the theater was always here or thatshe knew she was moving on top of it or any of that. The good thing is that the engineer noted that there is no carpeting in her apartment (which is required by the lease). The engineer said that putting a good carpet with good soundproofing padding will eliminate 50% of the problem.

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Richard Hamilton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1341
From: Evansville, Indiana
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-05-2010 02:24 PM      Profile for Richard Hamilton   Email Richard Hamilton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Show one of her previous films to her. Play it in mono and turn it down so low that you have to sit in the front row to hear it. Then politely ask her if thats how she wants you to show her next fucking film.

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Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 03-05-2010 04:18 PM      Profile for Julio Roberto     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Low frequencies are always a bitch to block.

Too bad this stuff is not readily commercially available.

http://link.aip.org/link/?APPLAB/96/041906/1

quote:
THE rumbling bass from the party animals next door need no longer keep you awake at night. Cheap and effective soundproofing can be yours in the shape of novel tiles made from latex and a few plastic buttons.

Low-frequency sounds, especially, seem to seep through most domestic walls. That's because of their long wavelength, says Zhiyu Yang at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology in Kowloon. Bass sounds at 100 hertz have a wavelength of over 3 metres in air, "and several times longer in solids", he says.

To block out all sound, buildings would need walls several metres thick. Now Yang and his team have developed soundproof panels made of latex and plastic buttons, that will do the job.

These noise-cancelling panels consist of a latex rubber membrane stretched over a 3-millimetre-thick rigid plastic grid of 1-centimetre-wide squares. In the middle of each square is a small, weighted, plastic button.

When sound waves hit the panel, the membrane and weighted buttons resonate at difference frequencies. "The inner part of the membrane vibrates in opposite phase to the outer region," says Yang. That means the sound waves cancel each other out and no sound gets through.

Each weighted membrane only cancels out sound waves within a small band of frequencies. But changing the weight of the buttons alters the operational frequency, says Yang. By stacking five membranes together, each tuned to a specific band, you can create a soundproof panel that works in the range from 70 to 550 hertz.


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