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Author Topic: Tarantino Gets 50 70mm Projectors For The Hateful Eight
Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 08-17-2015 01:35 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Also, unless your laptop is your ONLY computer what on earth would you need such a large HD for?
I have three 100GB operating system partitions (32-bit and 64-bit Windows, plus 64-bit Ubuntu), and often use the computer to render and move around feature-length DCPs, and so I do use that space.

As I say, SSDs of that capacity still cost a bit more than I'm willing to pay, but give it 1-2 years and they'll be down to $150-ish if the cost of SSD storage continues to decline at the rate it has been for the last 1-2 years.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

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From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-17-2015 01:55 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Out of curiousity, what do you do that requires 32-bit Windows?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-17-2015 02:43 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark will get no argument out of me regarding using SSDs in a laptop. It's the best possible upgrade for one because primarily of battery life, but they do run faster.

That being said, I'm on my 5th SSD in my laptop, which is only used when I'm installing. It's not a daily machine I use. I've tried various brands all based upon careful googling and reading of articles and have always bought the best one and they simply DO fail unexpectedly. I've also found there is a major difference in SSDs, as I've played with a few of the "lesser recommended" ones and I found them to not even be up to par with a mechanical drive.

Still for a server, I'm not ready for them...yet. A few years down the road hopefully, but not in 2015.

For XD10s or XD20s, all of my XD20s are setup with a raid, so not much concern there. On my XD10s, I did go the route of having a spare drive on-the-shelf pre-configured and ready to go.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-17-2015 02:50 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad.... Have you tried breaking the RAID with a show running? I bet it takes a shit until the raid rebuilds itself... I've yet to see a raid 1 or raid 0 that doesn't take a shit unless it has a hot standby and even then... it's questionable. and I've worked with gobs of different brands of raid's over the last 20 years. In my experience all the raid will do is preserve the data until it's repaired.

Mark

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Steve Kraus
Film God

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From: Chicago, IL, USA
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 - posted 08-17-2015 03:28 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Given the low active pixel count of digitally projecting 2.76, there really ought to be a 35mm film release via optical reduction not DI.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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From: Music City
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 - posted 08-17-2015 03:49 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree!!

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

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From: Loma Linda, CA
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 - posted 08-17-2015 06:50 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Scott Norwood
Out of curiousity, what do you do that requires 32-bit Windows?
I've got an older, PCMCIA phono preamp card (with switchable on/off RIAA EQ), which is still my best option for transferring 78s and for which no 64-bit driver is available.

A more minor reason is that if one Windows image were ever to become malware-infested, I could scan it and disinfect it while booted into the other, which would stand a much better chance of success (because the malware wouldn't actually be running as a background process and trying to molest the anti-malware software).

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-17-2015 08:41 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I keep versions of the various windows because some programs definitely don't run on more modern systems. Ever try to run a series 1 DLP program on Win 7 64 bit. It runs...but logs you out pretty fast. You can't do any series 1 TI updates with Win 7 64 bit (never tried win 7 32 bit but if you run in XP mode...no problem).

There was a time when the SDDS programs wouldn't run on XP even! As I recall, the Schneider Theatre Design Pro doesn't work on Win 7 (it might...but I know I've run into problems with it).

I can definitely see having legacy versions available for when you are working with legacy things.

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Sean Weitzel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Vacaville, CA (1790 miles west of Rockwall)
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-17-2015 09:26 PM      Profile for Sean Weitzel   Email Sean Weitzel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow, SSD chat in this thread (btw Samsung announced a 16TB flash NAND based drive that fits into a 2.5" form factor package this week).

I spent from fiscal year 2012 to Fiscal year 2014 at my former employer dealing with an enterprise wide distribution of laptops (approximately 8000 spread over ever continent) with several flavors of SSD drives. What Brad and others have stated about drives just up and bricking is truth. Since I was responsible for the 'whole disk' managed disk encryption solution (why we didn't just use bitlocker is a bone of contention between myself and my former co worker) I was constantly in the hot seat when one of our desktop techs fielded a call from a user who's laptop just chose to up and stop booting one random day.

What I and our laptop OEM (Lenovo) painfully learned over the course of a year was the fact that SSD drive OEM's are constantly uncovering bugs and issuing mission critical firmware updates that are not necessarily easily accessible to the general consumer. Sometimes it takes a major customer (like us!) to describe a trend of failure and have us send in failed drives for them to determine what happened and issue a firmware hotfix. Just for this conversation I will say that my take-away from the whole experience was that the non self-encrypting SSD's made by Intel (specifically the model 320 which was a 160gb SATA drive) was the most reliable in both a conventional application as well as hosting a 3rd party full disk software encryption solution. The Micron (same as Crucial) C400 256gb self encrypting SSD was an utter nightmare from the moment Lenovo started putting them into the Thinkpad series laptops we used. We endured failures and Micron issuing no less than five different firmware updates over the course of a year and a half before we started to see some stability. It also took me nearly 6 months to gather enough evidence showing that the disk encryption solution I was responsible for was not the cause of the drives bricking.

Scott Norwood is correct that a lot of the times spindle disks are more reliable than SSDs in that the onboard logic is pretty stable and a drive with a mechanical defect may give you more advance warning to do a recovery, and a mechanical failure may be able to be more readily worked around to recover data whereas once an SSD decides enough is enough that's it for your data. Conversely, SSD's of course have their own merits such as data speed, much higher resilience to physical shock (3 year old toddler tripping on a laptop cord sending the laptop crashing to the ground), lower energy consumption, and higher tolerance to environmental factors such as dust and heat. There are pros and cons to everything. One just has to figure out what the best solution to their situation is.

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Bill Brandenstein
Master Film Handler

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From: Santa Clarita, CA
Registered: Jul 2013


 - posted 08-18-2015 11:48 AM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Leo Enticknap
I've got an older, PCMCIA phono preamp card (with switchable on/off RIAA EQ), which is still my best option for transferring 78s and for which no 64-bit driver is available.

A more minor reason is that if one Windows image were ever to become malware-infested, I could scan it and disinfect it while booted into the other...

Done both of these. But audio drivers that hate Vista and newer is the main reason I keep WinXP-32 and Adobe Audition 3.0 around.

On a separate note:

BRAD: your training transformation of a McDonald's burger flipper into a projectionist would be worth seeing. Have you ever considered shooting videos? Heck, a 70mm series would be worth the time too. It might even be worth charging for.

I just think that as film gets rarer and rarer, your expertise will become a rarer (and increasingly essential) find also. Document this for posterity, if not for hobbyists on the fringe like me!

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Scott Norwood
Film God

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From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-18-2015 12:34 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Leo (and Steve) -- that makes perfect sense. I didn't think about specialized hardware with older drivers.

Mark -- any decent RAID controller or software RAID implementation should be able to survive a disk failure with, at most, some performance degradation. If you can't pull a disk out of the machine while it is running without taking the whole system down, you have a crappy RAID implementation. If the hardware is physically hot-swappable, you should normally be able to replace the bad drive, re-scan the disks, and reconstitute the RAID (or assign the new disk as a hot spare) without any downtime, too.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-18-2015 01:17 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Bill the most amazing transformation I ever had was with a kid who had just turned 16 years old. This guy was a football jock and right off of the bat one would think even trying to train that type of person to be a projectionist would be a waste of time, but that kid was amazing. This was in one of those platter array booths too, which was much more difficult to run than a traditional multiplex. The kid walked right in there and got it all perfect, all the time and to my knowledge in the several years he worked for me, never laid a mark on a single print.

In a direct contrast at the same location (even on the same training sessions) was a gal who had lots of experience at an AMC. She could never tackle the platter array and had continual issues just trying to thread the projector heads correctly and consistently, as she was stuck in her previous ways (the way she was taught). Normally my rule is someone gets 3 shifts practicing basic threading and if they don't get the basics by that point, they're out, but as this theater opening was very short on applicants, I gave this gal the 7 full days of "threading training" and at the end of it she still couldn't do it right.

To give you an idea of the way I trained, I would assemble virgin prints of 2 trailers. Each trainee had to "own" that print, and they were the only ones to touch it. This "movie" ran about 5 minutes and it was comprised of one trailer to simulate the trailer pack and another trailer to simulate the feature, with a full set of cues so the automation would do a normal and complete "show". I then made them thread it over and over and over for hours on end over multiple days. I would constantly keep an eye on their threading and techniques, and if there was a mark on the print after being ran repeatedly like that it was considered a failure. Dirt on the print was not tolerated either, as I consider that a mark. This taught them the importance of keeping the projector clean, and most importantly the film cleaner.

In this day and age though, I just don't see that level of training ever happening again. I know I certainly don't have the spare time to do it anymore. There are other people out there who are plenty capable as well to train, but like me the ones I know who are worth a flip don't have the spare time to be setting up and conducting training sessions and such. (Unfortunately for every person who is truly good at training, there are easily 100 that are awful at it.) The one thing I can absolutely guarantee though is that there will NEVER exist a scenario where someone can be trained in a day. Even once the guys passed my tests of running a 5 minute movie over and over for several days, that was just operation and proper film handling in terms of threading. That did not get into splicing, building, inspection, troubleshooting and everything else that a projectionist really needed to have in their knowledge base...but if they couldn't reliably re-thread the system without putting a mark on the print, I certainly wasn't going to waste my time proceeding to teach them anything further as they were sent downstairs to do box office or something else.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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From: Music City
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 - posted 08-18-2015 03:25 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sean Weitzel...

What type of SSD were they? MLC or SLC, again. That choice makes a huge difference in reliability. Also, was disk defrag shut off? That also makes a huge difference. You never defrag an ssd, that IS the fastest route to making it into a brick.

Scott Norwood, Oddly, the only cinema servers that I've seen lose drives and not burp were those with software based raid. In fact if you didn't look to check you would never know on some of them that a drive had left the array. On Dolby every time a drive failed it burped and you had to reboot it to continue. Now that may have been corrected in later firmware versions but I didn't stay with them long enough to find out because the support sucked. I know every time a drive failed in one because I'd get a phone call and have to remote in.

I've seen the same on Dell PERC 5 & 6 as well as LSI cards. You don't lose any data but it has to reboot in order for it to to keep working. I've purposely broken raids of all sorts many times just to see what actually does happen... Raid 6 seems to be the one that keeps on ticking as though nothing happens.

Mark

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Sean Weitzel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Vacaville, CA (1790 miles west of Rockwall)
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-18-2015 04:29 PM      Profile for Sean Weitzel   Email Sean Weitzel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark both the headache Micron drives and the trouble free Intel drives are MLC. Our standard corporate image had defrag disabled by default on any machine containing an SSD (But we all know if a drive reports itself to the Windows OS as an SSD defragging is disabled automatically....unless you have volsnap enabled)

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 08-18-2015 05:34 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I gave this person the 7 full days of "threading training"
I trained the same - 7 days of hard training so they would never forget and also with this, they gained the confidence to handle the machinery.

So far at present, that Samsung 16T SSD drive is an Enterprise drive and not for consumer use.

-Monte

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