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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » 70mm Presentations in Louisville (Page 4)

 
This topic comprises 6 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6   
Author Topic: 70mm Presentations in Louisville
Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003

- posted 03-06-2018 02:26 PM      Profile for Sam D. Chavez   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well done Mike! I must concede the point.

I apologize if you thought I was attacking your research as "fake news". I'm as far away from the man who coined the phrase as is possible, and it seems to have riled you judging from the speed of your response. As I've said before, I do respect your work but there is always the danger of relying on cinema ads for accuracy esp. in small markets.

I do object to the way you use your findings like a blunt weapon and in fact originally got into this debate because of the shabby way you've treated others in the past. Now, no one would ever accuse me of being tactful but you could take a lesson and use some humor and charm in your work or risk ending up with books full of stats and no friends to read them.

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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999

- posted 03-06-2018 03:24 PM      Profile for Paul Linfesty   Email Paul Linfesty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Sam D. Chavez
So "Hurry Sundown" opens with great fanfare. We, without notice, get a glorious brand new 4 track Mag print which I can actually run, in Mag mono of course. Meanwhile, Theatre 70 gets a run of the mill 35mm mono optical print. So these things could and did happen back then.
Was this movie even released in 4-track mag? IMDB states that the mix is mono (I realize they are inaccurate sometimes). However, at this particular time Paramount wasn't really into mag stereo prints, other than their few roadshow pictures.

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Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003

- posted 03-06-2018 05:54 PM      Profile for Sam D. Chavez   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I also saw IMDB was showing it as a mono release. My memory is not faulty on this aspect as I had it in my hands and projected it. I was the relief operator so imagine my surprise at getting a new mag print of anything and not having a clue if it would play. So I checked and it did with great fidelity, much better than in optical. I changed back and forth to confirm it was really in mag. I'm not sure if the LCR was combined into mono or if it was straight center channel feed. It was done both ways back then. Otto Preminger (sp) was was quite flashy and it was a big production so I never gave it any thought. Why look a gift horse in the mouth?

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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999

- posted 03-06-2018 10:32 PM      Profile for Paul Linfesty   Email Paul Linfesty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sam I can't imagine just using the center channel only. Typical L-C-R mixes of that era often used directional dialog. L-C-R mixed into mono makes more sense, but the most sense would be for a drive-in to just play the half optical track of the mag-optic print, considering the low fidelity of drive-in speakers.

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Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003

- posted 03-07-2018 12:11 AM      Profile for Sam D. Chavez   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I did not say it had to make sense, but it was really just that way. A lot of DI's equipped with mag mono after "The Robe". One of the systems even used a phase flip switch in case the left or right were recorded out of phase with the center and cancelled the dialog.

On the other hand, the half optical track sounded horrible as the mag stripe bled a bit when applied and had a ragged edge that was detected by the pec cell.

You must visit our period authentic 1954 era Simplex screening room comprised of pieces from the Colonial, the location of the booth shots in the "Blob" and power amps from the Paramount in Oakland. Almost new Peerless arc Lamps from McCune AV rental stock. I keep meaning to post a photo tour. Ask Jess Daily if you know him. He's been here.

I was gifted a 4 track, mag only, IB Tech print from John Hazelton of Pixar. Country Joe heard about our screening and turned up.

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Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003

- posted 03-07-2018 02:08 AM      Profile for Sam D. Chavez   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I see I left out the title "Woodstock" so Country Joe of the Fish would make more sense to those under 50.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 03-07-2018 12:15 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Walter Reed theatres invested in a Mag mono system in the 50's in a large way

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001

- posted 03-15-2018 03:27 PM      Profile for Michael Coate   Email Michael Coate   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Sam D. Chavez
Well done Mike! I must concede the point.
Wow…I actually expected more pushback. To your credit, at least you didn’t accuse me of photoshopping the ads as another film-tech member did a few years ago. Now if we could just get some conceding of the original point about early 70mm runs in Louisville.

Getting back to that original point of contention…

How come no one has questioned if the details were told correctly to Louis in the first place? I mean the incident would've going on two decades old by the time Louis was told the story. And now it’s being recalled again additional decades later.

Personally, I think it is the fact that “Around the World in 80 Days” played at the Brown twice that is the root of this argument. (Look over my chronology again at the top of this thread or follow the link to the real page and you’ll see it played before “Raintree County” and then again after “Raintree County.”) A factor may also have been Mike Todd reportedly approving an early termination of the Brown’s first run of “80 Days” to accommodate the “Raintree County” premiere and run. Keep in mind Todd had no involvement with “Raintree County”; he didn’t produce it nor was it shot in his process. Todd’s only connection to it was he was married to its star and accompanied her to the premiere.

At any rate, I don’t really care at this point if some of you continue to believe Louis’ claim that the Brown operator scammed his way into booking early runs of “Oklahoma!” and “80 Days” and lied about their promotion. I’ve already written comprehensive pieces on those films and that era and I’m not convinced enough to go back and revise them.

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Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003

- posted 03-15-2018 06:40 PM      Profile for Sam D. Chavez   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Michael Coate
Wow…I actually expected more pushback. To your credit, at least you didn’t accuse me of photoshopping the ads as another film-tech member did a few years ago. Now if we could just get some conceding of the original point about early 70mm runs in Louisville.
Mike, that's what I would call gloating. And it helps validate my point that you get your thrills by proving someone wrong in an in your face fashion instead of having a nice back and forth that might even provide some depth and context to your information. I really don't care for your use of the term "to your credit"

Now you come all the way back to the original Louisville topic while everyone else has moved on. The main reason I got involved in this thread is because of the completely disrespectful way you treated Louis Bornwasser. That was totally uncalled for and a cheap shot.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 03-15-2018 07:46 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the only accurate way to deal with this is the actual studio booking sheets
Newspaper ads are very inaccurate best

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001

- posted 03-19-2018 02:54 PM      Profile for Michael Coate   Email Michael Coate   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Sam D. Chavez
The main reason I got involved in this thread is because of the completely disrespectful way you treated Louis Bornwasser. That was totally uncalled for and a cheap shot.
Actually I think it is me who is being disrespected by some of you.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

- posted 03-26-2018 10:21 AM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you, Sam.

I have never even one time mentioned Oklahoma.

Louisville back then routinely followed the nation in setting playdates. Academy Award telecasts usually contained a majority of films that had not played locally yet.

The difficulty in using newspaper clippings is that they only show what the theatre owner wanted to show or mislead. Adding to that the confusion with the guy who actually does the physical ad itself. I gave up trying to keep everyone straight with Dolby Stereo. At least 3 cinemas promoted Dolby in their ads if the film had Dolby Stereo on it.

That said, there is probably nothing left other than the ads by now; the methedology is good, but it is not perfect.

Todd was the instigator of 70mm as an investor in TODD/AO. He was vitally concerned and felt that Around the World was his masterpiece. Therefore any release in 70mm he would defend.

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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

- posted 03-27-2018 03:53 AM      Profile for Will Kutler   Email Will Kutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Sam D. Chavez
The main reason I got involved in this thread is because of the completely disrespectful way you treated Louis Bornwasser. That was totally uncalled for and a cheap shot.
Thank you Sam...I second your comment!

Accurate historical research includes a lot more effort than rudimentary newspaper advertisements!

I grew up in Tucson having moved there from Cleveland, Ohio circa 1975. So I was interested in the thread regarding 70mm presentations in Tucson. I gave up on Michael's "facts" when he has inaccurately given the physical locations of several theaters.

As a pre-early teenager, I used to hang out with the I.A.T.S.E. Projectionists in both the El Dorado and Buena Vista and have some stories to tell. I was hoping to have been accepted into the Tucson Local, but caught the tail-end when I.A.T.S.E. was being forced out. BTW, I physically handled the 70mm print of "Empire Strikes Back" at the El Dorado.

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Rick Raskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1100
From: Manassas Virginia
Registered: Jan 2003

- posted 03-27-2018 06:56 AM      Profile for Rick Raskin   Email Rick Raskin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Sam D. Chavez
Meanwhile, Theatre 70 gets a run of the mill 35mm mono optical print. So these things could and did happen back then.
I can attest to that. I ran the roadshow of "Nicholas & Alexandra" at the KB Apex (Washington, DC) in 1971. The print was 35mm optical and to my recollection the projection format was not advertised.

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001

- posted 03-30-2018 05:03 PM      Profile for Michael Coate   Email Michael Coate   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Louis Bornwasser
I have never even one time mentioned Oklahoma.
It was implied when you stated 70mm projectors were installed at the Brown for "Raintree County" (and it was what set in motion this whole argument).

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