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Author Topic: 78's Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 10-17-2006 06:21 PM                        Be sure to MONO up the channels; this not only guarantees that it will be the same in both channels, but it also cancels rumble & anything else that has a vertical component. Louis  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 10-17-2006 10:15 PM                     Antique Electronics Supply in Tempe, AZ www.tubesandmore.com stocks new 78 needles. 78 needles are only good for x-number of plays. For 78 info you might look at the antique radio forum. There used to be a store in San Bernardino, CA that specialized in restoration of antique Victrolas, etc. This was back in the early 1990's, so not sure if they are still there. Kutler  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 10-18-2006 12:11 AM                     Luckilly, I have a turntable that does the speed for these old shellacs, but the real way to do all of this recording production is to get a dedicated mono cartridge and styli-the conical version. Now, if you're producing audio copies of the old vertical cut Edison 1/4" platters, then the cheap stereo cartridge works great with that since the groove width is narrower. Just do a parallel output of one side of the cartridge for mono output since the dual channel playback will reveal a "hole in the middle" sound since the magnets/coils are wired with opposite poles of each other causing the output current to be out of phase with vertical cut platters (since one pole/magnet is pulling whereas the other one is pushing with one groove cycle in using a stereo cartridge and styli). You might have to add a gram or two on the tonearm when doing these shellacs. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 10-18-2006 03:11 AM                  quote: Monte L Fullmer ...if you're producing audio copies of the old vertical cut Edison 1/4" platters, then the cheap stereo cartridge works great with that since the groove width is narrower. I'd be ***REAL*** careful about doing that! Without the proper playback cartridge/needle you can permanently damage the recoding. I suggest one do Google for the proper methods.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 10-18-2006 06:20 AM                        quote: Will Kutler 78 needles are only good for x-number of plays. If you mean steel needles of the sort that were used in acoustic gramophones, each needle was good for between 1 and 5 sides, depending on the grade of steel; each record was generally good for 50 and 100 (depending on an number of variables) plays for a shellac pressing, before the grooves were basically shredded. Acetate on glass/steel individual pressings had a much shorter lifespan - sometimes as little as 10-20 plays - and required playback with a wooden stylus, as it was less abrasive. Personally I'd say it was ethically very questionable whether you should use acoustic gramophones for transfer. The steel needles are much more abrasive than the diamond or sapphire ones in a moving magnet or moving coil electronic cartridge: they will inflict permanent, irreversible damage on the record being played. Set against which, you could argue that acoustic playback is more authentic, and will give you a better idea of how the record will have sounded when originally played. Nimbus Records takes the latter view, and uses acoustic playback for its 78 to CD releases, albeit using wooden needles. But the usually accepted golden rule of any form of archival preservation or restoration, from oil paintings to videotapes, is to do nothing which is or could be irreversible, no matter what the short term benefit. Me, I'd steer clear of acoustic playback in the hope that there'll eventually be a computer-based way of recreating the sound. In the meantime, no damage has been done to any records.  |  IP: Logged Jeffry L. Johnson Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 809 From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 10-18-2006 11:23 AM                        ELP Laser Turntable  |  IP: Logged Charles Greenlee Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 801 From: Savannah, Ga, U.S. Registered: Jun 2006 posted 10-18-2006 11:53 AM                        Jeffrey, I've seen them beofre, too expensive. Built a homemade one, won't play 78's, yet.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 10-18-2006 12:34 PM                        Won't do coarsegroove records or speeds above 50rpm, sadly. I've also heard anecdotal evidence that records need to be almost clinically clean (i.e. you effectively need to use the thing in a clean air environment) to avoid it picking up huge amounts of surface noise. The non-invasive playback principle is a neat idea, though.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 10-18-2006 07:25 PM                     quote: and uses acoustic playback for its 78 to CD releases, One needs to hear these Prima Voce series from Nimbus. It's quite amazing that the results of this "re-recording" process can come out so lifelike -like if you're right there, standing in front of the horn yourself right after the artists have recorded their pieces for their programs.. quote: I'd be ***REAL*** careful about doing that! Without the proper playback cartridge/needle you can permanently damage the recording. I agree Phil and thx for the warning. - Monte [ 10-19-2006, 01:43 AM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]  |  IP: Logged Ron Keillor Expert Film Handler Posts: 166 From: Vancouver, B.C. Canada Registered: Jul 2003 posted 10-19-2006 02:18 PM                     from Flanders and Swann's At the Drop of a Hat: "...And then they amplified it. It was MUCH LOUDER then and we sharpened fibre needles to make it soft again. "  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 10-19-2006 04:27 PM                        ...pass it through your rumble filter through your cutoff to your tweeter, and what does it give you? FLUTTER ON YOUR BOTTOM!  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-03-2006 04:07 PM                     regarding the ELP check out http://www.smartdev.com/LT/laserturntable.html and for a equalizer for the various curves http://www.smartdev.com/LT/remaster.html and for a turntable http://www.smartdev.com/smartht.html  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-04-2006 06:24 PM                     In the early 90's there was a series of recordings done using a certain model Victor talking machine and famous 78 RPM recordings of Caruso and other old opera stars, the Victor was set up on stage of an opera house that has near perfect acoustics. The Victor was equipped with a certain type of thorn needle instead of its normal steel needle and this rendered a virtually noisless background but only lasted for one play and had to be changed. I've heard these recordings and they are astonishing... you'd think it was an actual recording of Caruso himself. I think they were done by Refrence Recordings but I'm not 100% sure. At home I use an antique wind up table top Victor for my 78 playback. When folks come over they always ask if the old Victrola works and then I astonish them with an old Bix Beiderbeck 78 that I have. That always drops their jaws! Another good old turntable to use for 78's is the Rek-O-Kut... otherwise known as the Rumble-Kut. One also has to determine if the groove is verticle or laterally cut and use the appropriate cartridge. G.E. made the old variable reluctance catrtridges and I believe they had one model that could do both types by rotating the needle. Mark  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 11-04-2006 08:35 PM                     The Rek-O-Nut turntables with the dual pickup for 33 1/3 and 78....I used to remember using them building up music and sound effects for t.v shows, as a teenager, for WEDU TV in Tampa. We had the Valentino music / effect library and the 78 records where easier to cue up than 33 1/3. Rek-O-Nut is still around at www.esotericsound.com  |  IP: Logged Charles Greenlee Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 801 From: Savannah, Ga, U.S. Registered: Jun 2006 posted 11-04-2006 11:04 PM                        You're old Richard. J/k, but his has definatly been a worthwhile thread. I've gotten some good notes. Now I just wait on the equipment. I may purchase that EQ, if/when I get the money. Especially since my old one got trashed by my friend's kid.  |  IP: Logged

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