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This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5
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Topic: 78's
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Charles Greenlee
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 801
From: Savannah, Ga, U.S.
Registered: Jun 2006
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posted 12-07-2006 12:10 AM
Ok, while we're waiting on that All-in-one my parents are supposed to be getting, how about one of my old dubs using that school model briefcase record player? I dubbed it through a Y-connector to give me 2 identical channels, ran it through my old EQ to tweak the tone, reduce rumble and hiss, and add a faux stero effect. It was recorded to CrO2 tape. There's been no specialized or digital retouching. I recorded to my computer straight to MP3, and cropped to size. So basically, here's what I did with such a minimal setup. Rhapsody in Blue on 78rpm Suprisingly, it's not that bad. I did this about a year, maybe 2, ago.
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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted 12-12-2006 09:10 PM
Like I need more records...
An old friend, and film enthusiast of mine died a couple of months ago at the age of 80. He worked in radio and TV for over 45 years, and aquired several thousand 78's when the local AM station changed formats in the early 1960's. They are now mine. I am going to keep them where they are for now, as my friends grandson now owns the house, and is changing nothing.
Some of the discs are early rock and roll, but most are mid 1930's and up to around 1960 or so popular music, and hit parade stuff.
The discs are all lovingly arranged by artist in alphabetical order. I have the master list, too.
There's an old Gates broadcast turntable, with 2 tone arms... One is for standard discs, and the other is strictly for the old Edison lateral discs, and there are a couple of hundred of these.
I feel very fortunate to have received this collection. I truly miss my pal, Bill Banner, and hope that he is happy with my decisions on his collection distribution... I had to sell some of the equipment, mostly old broadcast TV stuff, and old cart machines, etc. for the family. They got all that money, too. I have no plans to sell any of the discs, but would like to record everything for myself. Im getting some really good ideas on this topic from youse guys. Keep them coming!
Bruce
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Charles Greenlee
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 801
From: Savannah, Ga, U.S.
Registered: Jun 2006
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posted 12-13-2006 04:33 AM
I can link up more tracks if you like. They're on the aforementioned tapes, I can rip more to Mp3. I can't wait till they get the crosley, so I can rip directly from the 78 to Mp3, and then digitally EQ and tweak it. Like I said, the EQ for the current rips is done on an EQ I got for $10 at a garage sale. Too bad my friend's daughter ruined it, worked nicely, only problem was one of the aux inputs was dead, which I didn't need or use anyhow.
quote: Leo Enticknap
The EQ boosted the midrange nicely, though the slightly muddy HF (e.g. the very high piano notes having a tendency to get drowned in surface
I'll try to look out for that when I can do my direct rips, and EQ it in software. quote: Leo Enticknap
is something that happens when you start with an RIAA-equalised signal
I think the discs predate RIAA-eq'ing, tough I could be wrong. Though the turntable might try to "correct" for it anyways, but one would hope that it'd turn that off when you selected 78 as a speed.
Also, when I get a direct rip, and am tweaking the files digitally, I may also correct for speed differences. Do recall that 78 is an average speed used, some records are recorded as low as 68? RPM, and some as high as 96?. I have a few programs, one of which must have the capability of slowing or speeding up the sound.
Like I mentioned, I'm pretty much trying to restore and remeaster as best as I can, without having to pay someone to do it for me. Part of it is the fun of doing it, and playing with the recordings and see what I can do.
So, for such a makeshift operation, you think it turned out pretty decent? Want me to rip more tracks? I even have recordings of my Grandmother, from way back in the day, they're pretty good. But she was self concious about people hearing them for some reason, so those I won't post, but I have others, like Shaharazade, or however it's spelled.
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 12-13-2006 04:27 PM
quote: Charles Greenlee
I think the discs predate RIAA-eq'ing, tough I could be wrong.
You're right - no RIAA curve on shellac 78s. It was designed specifically for vinyl, in order to compensate for the poor HF performance of early disc cutters (Wikipedia page on RIAA). The cutter encoded the signal through the curve and the phono preamp reverses it in playback, similar to Dolby NR on an audio cassette. The problem is that if the RIAA curve is applied in playback but not in recording, the signal will be distorted. During the electrically recorded 78 period (from 1925 approx.), different record companies used different EQ curves, but none distorted the frequency range as radically as RIAA.
The problem with playing back 78s nowadays is that all phono preamps except those specifically designed for 78 reproduction have RIAA equalisation built in. To get round this you can (i) take the phono level output (much lower than line level) straight into the mike input of a sound card and normalise using software, (ii) buy a phono preamp stage that doesn't apply RIAA - seriously expensive - or (iii) capture through an RIAA preamp, and then use secondary equalisation to try and reverse it, by reducing the HF ranges and boosting the bass.
I've stuck some examples of each on my website here. The Titanic record was captured through a mike input, with normalisation and a bit of surface noise reduction done using Adobe Audition. The joke record and the cigarette advert were taken through an RIAA phono preamp into a desktop audio CD recorder; the recordings were then captured through Audition, the HF attenuated a bit and the bass boosted a bit. The sound card method allowed for better surface noise reduction, but at the expense of overall HF response, to my ears.
quote: Charles Greenlee
Do recall that 78 is an average speed used, some records are recorded as low as 68? RPM, and some as high as 96?
The variances mainly come in records from the pre-electric era, i.e. before the mid-20s. After then the cutting lathes were mainly driven by electric motors and the speed is pretty constant and reliable. To tell whether the speed is right you really need someone with perfect pitch to tell you if what should be a middle C really is a middle C.
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Charles Greenlee
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 801
From: Savannah, Ga, U.S.
Registered: Jun 2006
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posted 12-15-2006 07:35 PM
I was thinking of using the keyboard. Say I know that a certain note in the Rhapsody in Blue is your A that you mention, I'll go to the keyboard and compare them. I'd play that not, over and over, tweaking the speed to make the tone match. It may not make it perfect, but live orchestra's aren't perfectly tuned either. I'd try a stoboscope, but with the surface nouse and all, it'd be hard to get a pure tone from the recording to tune with. So I'll just do it by ear.
Tune, that may have been the word I was serching for earlier, it'd have mady my previous comment about differences is speed shorter and easier to understand. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) I'll need to tune the audio files.
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