Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » 70 vs. DC starring Larry Myres (Page 5)

 
This topic comprises 50 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  ...  48  49  50 
 
Author Topic: 70 vs. DC starring Larry Myres
Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-28-2006 08:49 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Larry Myers
Well, why don't you post your math to back up your statements.
I'm not the guy that made a statement that is clearly wrong by demonstratable fact...you were...hence you don't have your math right and are not taking into account all the variables that go into perceived image quality.

I've pointed out that your analysis does not take into account the whole anamorphic process and the perceivable resolution loss with its use.

I've also pointed out that your analysis did not take into account the negative/internegative process and that the quality difference is a muliplication loss..not linear.

If you shoot something in 35mm and then blow the camera negative up to 65mm for an interpositive...is the 65mm interpositive a better representation of the 35mm negative than a 35mm contact IP? This same line of reasoning could happen where the change is often done...at the Internegative. The 65mm IN will be a step printed pin registered to the 35mm IP. We have a much bigger area to represent the 35mm source from this point on so there are at least two generations, minimum, of improved image area and they multiply the improvement over their 35mm counterparts. The only "hit" to the process and is a wild-card is the optical enlargement process where we are dependant on that for potential image losses....compared to the anamorphic lenses that must be used on 35mm scope...it is much easier to make a good spherical lens than an anamorphic one.

Then there is the projector...I've pointed out why the same projector running 35mm film vs 70mm film will do a better job with the 70mm film.

quote: Larry Myers
...as film handlers know about analyzing what's inside film
It appears you aren't a very good scientist at all...you have not looked at the results of your hypothosis to verify your claims...and in fact, they are wrong. They are wrong not because they didn't start with a reasonable presumption, they are wrong because they were very limited in their presumptions and have lead you to wrong conclusions.

You brought up the "laws of physics" before...have you actually studied physics or were you using it as a catch phrase? That study is still on-going too...using pre-conceived notions to rationalize conclusions have quite literally wasted entire life times of scientists trying to get the world to behave as they think it should be, not the other way around ...to see the world as it is and figure out why it is that way.

You don't have the science and study to back up your statements...you don't even have personal knowledge of seeing the two mediums side by side to draw a conclusion...how can you make the statements? Because of some limited presumption? That isn't science or physics...it is just sloppy.

 |  IP: Logged

Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 01-28-2006 09:57 PM      Profile for Larry Myers         Edit/Delete Post 
Hey, all you got to do is post the right math to you prove your point. So why not do it? It's as easy as one, two, three. I know! I know! Math, Math, I don't need no stinkin Math. Oh sorry, wrong movie.

Besides, no matter what you or I say, agree or disagree, 70mm is never coming back. In fact, as DVD copys are released at the same time 35mm hits the streets, it will mean death to the theaters and I bet death to film, 35mm or otherwise.

Digital photography has already took a big chunk out of the Rochester economy. The GM thing going on now just about killed the city. Things are really bad for film in general. Things are really bad for Rochester specifically

 |  IP: Logged

Thomas Hauerslev
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 01-28-2006 11:49 PM      Profile for Thomas Hauerslev   Author's Homepage   Email Thomas Hauerslev   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"They made him shoot most of the movie in 'scope, with some scenes filmed in 65mm Super Panavision"

Actually, all first person scenes were done in 65mm Super Panavision. The rest was flat 1,54:1

There is an image here: http://www.in70mm.com/now_showing/images/brainstorm_small.jpg

 |  IP: Logged

Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 01-29-2006 12:29 AM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The movie also had the cool expansion of the sound field when you went from the standard shots to the full frame shots. Very cool aspect. One also must not forget that this film almost got canned. Some final scenes had to be reworked after Natalie Woods death during the filming.

Wasn't Doug Trumbles intention from the start with showscan was to film and play back at 60 fps.

 |  IP: Logged

Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-29-2006 12:41 AM      Profile for Greg Mueller   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Mueller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Larry you never answered my question. Are you avoiding it?

 |  IP: Logged

Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 01-29-2006 02:26 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson
At least it looked decent. But the 35mm prints had the image reduced down to a tiny window-boxed postage stamp inside the frame
(Sorry, missed this one where I could have replied sooner..)

I ran that 50th anniv. of "Fantasia" in 1990, and we had the full frame release print. With this full frame presentation of 1.33/1, we used a longer flat lens, and added more side maskings, which were of a light material to allow the left/right sound through to the screen, to fit the picture.

Excellent presentation, to say the least. Just too bad it was printed on Eastman stock instead of an dye transfer Technicolor IB stock.

the 1998 release of "the Wizard of Oz" was the "postage stamp" release by Warner Bros .Didn't look bad, but was somewhat inhibited due to the smaller frame being presented on a big screen.

quote: Greg Mueller
why don't you got to a theater and see 70MM?

..especially a 70mm release that is on IB stock...

quote: Darryl Spicer
Some final scenes had to be reworked after Natalie Woods death during the filming.

..yes, that was unfortunate, and the ending of the movie finished rather abruptly to save the feature instead of canning the film alltogether.

"Brainstorm" was excellent in 70mm at the Cottonwood in SLC where I saw it.

quote: Larry Myers
Alien I think had two 70mm prints made.
I saw "Alien" in 70mm at the Centre (the old Centre) in SLC on a flat screen which that theatre had. Machinery were the Bauers U-2's with Strong Futura II's carbon arc lamphouses - and in a well-operated union booth.

Yet, I was wondering if "Alien" was shot in Super35 and blown up for the 70mm release since the imagery just didn't have the clarity as would if the print was shot in 65mm.

thx-Monte

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-29-2006 02:53 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Monte L Fullmer
..especially a 70mm release that is on IB stock...
Such a thing does not exist.

Also it needs to be noted that a 70mm blowup with today's film stocks will even blow away the revival 70mm prints of yesteryear that are being ran on special engagements.

 |  IP: Logged

Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 01-29-2006 03:50 AM      Profile for Michael Coate   Email Michael Coate   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Larry Myers
Alien I think had two 70mm prints made.
Huh?!? "Alien" had a lot more than two 70mm prints made. (The film had 110, to be exact.)

 |  IP: Logged

Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 01-29-2006 03:56 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think Larry meant the two prints playing in Rochester, NY that were there at the time,but he just didn't make that clear enough - kinda got lost in the quagmire.

-kinda spun me around as well when I read this for I knew of a good number of theatres playing "Alien" in 70mm during that summer of 1979.

 |  IP: Logged

Thomas Jonsson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 216
From: Bromolla, Sweden
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted 01-29-2006 04:58 AM      Profile for Thomas Jonsson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don´t think DVD´s "hitting the streets" the same time as the 35mm
theatrical release will mean the death of film - or theaters for
that matter. It happens more or less allready with downloads on the
internet, and people still go to the theaters. Sweden´s famous
director Ingmar Bergman predicted movie theaters would be gone by
1995. Well, the corpse is still alive and kicking!

Thomas

 |  IP: Logged

David Kilderry
Master Film Handler

Posts: 355
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 01-29-2006 06:25 AM      Profile for David Kilderry   Author's Homepage   Email David Kilderry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I spent several years in the 1980's at Australia's 2nd busiest theatre complex. For almost the entire time we had at least 1 70mm print screening. All 70mm, except for revivals of 2001 and perhaps part of Brainstorm, were blow-ups.

As the films moved from 70mm to 35mm we had ample opportunity to compare the quality of the projected image. Even on the larger 70mm screens the 70mm blow-ups were sharp, crisp and had presence.

I can think of only one occasion when the 35mm looked better than the 70mm and that was at another theatre in the circuit with 2010. The 70mm print was shedding oxide off the tracks and a 35mm scope print was run and it was sharper.

Larry Shaw of course talks perfect sense. Digital is a cost cutting measure for distributors, who in most cases are the studios. In the countless tests and reports I was involved in at one of the worlds largest cinema chains, a multiplex running all digital costs MORE to operate than one running 35mm film.

 |  IP: Logged

Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 01-29-2006 08:00 AM      Profile for Larry Myers         Edit/Delete Post 
I think Mark Twain said it best when he was accused of writing stories that read as weak as water. He said sure, most writers write like fine wine. I will have you know that not everyone drinks fine wine but everyone drinks water.

So even if you think 70mm is fine wine. You can't play it everywhere and you can't get the ticket sales to cover your cost.

This might even go for the "same time release" of DVD's. They are more like water then anything before and everyone can play them at their leisure just like drinking a glass of water.

[ 01-29-2006, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: Larry Myers ]

 |  IP: Logged

Thomas Jonsson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 216
From: Bromolla, Sweden
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted 01-29-2006 08:21 AM      Profile for Thomas Jonsson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
People can eat at home - but they still go to a nice restaurant
now and then.

Thomas

 |  IP: Logged

Robert Throop
Master Film Handler

Posts: 412
From: Vernon, NY USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-29-2006 08:45 AM      Profile for Robert Throop   Email Robert Throop   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Larry Myers
Actually I did engoy going to my favorate 70mm theater at Pittsford Plaza 3. A 70mm only theater with a VIC 8.
Pittsford Plaza had a single Century JJ2 with Cine Focus.
Bob

 |  IP: Logged

David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 01-29-2006 10:31 AM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Brainstorm" in 70mm on a 75-foot screen (Edwards Big Newport) was a very memorable experience.

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 50 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  ...  48  49  50 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.