Film-Tech Cinema Systems
  Home     Products     Store     Forum     Warehouse     Contact Us    
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » I'm curious to know why many on Film-Tech seem to be so negative on digital cinema (Page 17)

 
This topic comprises 18 pages: 1  2  3  ...  14  15  16  17  18   
Author Topic: I'm curious to know why many on Film-Tech seem to be so negative on digital cinema
Demetris Thoupis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1240
From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 03-19-2010 01:25 AM      Profile for Demetris Thoupis   Email Demetris Thoupis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
With D-Cinema you need to take certain precautions at installation which most people do not. Balanced phases, clean power supply even a UPS can help! See the Christie how they found out that they do NEED a UPS on the electronics? This is not mainly fault of the equipment but fault of the electrical company. Power fluctuations are the main thing which leads to downshows on D-Cinema. Unfortunately if a card blows you need a new card. I would suggest having a spare hard drive in case the raid fails (although it will startup) but nothing more. I for once in the 8 months of digital installation thankfully have not encountered any lost show on any of the screens I did installation. Tony I take your approach and I embrace it as well although not that much while still the point remains. Hey folks. FILM RULES!
Demetris

 |  IP: Logged
Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003

- posted 03-19-2010 08:43 AM      Profile for Brian Guckian   Email Brian Guckian   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Martin McCaffery
I'm working on some fundraising statements. All the other movie theatres in town have gone digital. Is it too obnoxious to say every theatre in town downgraded to digital?
No - it is merely telling the truth [Frown]

 |  IP: Logged
Geena Phillips
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 198
From: Norcross, GA / USA
Registered: Apr 2006

- posted 04-06-2010 03:45 PM      Profile for Geena Phillips   Author's Homepage   Email Geena Phillips   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tony, why do you even come to this section of the forum? I mean, I don't go to vinyl-enthusiast forums and knock the 180-gram virgin-pressing records out their hands. Honestly.

 |  IP: Logged
Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted 04-06-2010 05:54 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
so if only the money wasted on D-Crapema was spent on training and hiring COMPETENT projectionists!!
.and this is the battle that has been going on for over 30 plus years when cinemas went either manager/operator or floor staff operated when the realization of the elimination of higher paid organized labor and evolve into a teamwork based operation and in doing so, you can pay less - but the big tradeoff is the output of quality and DCI is the "escape route" to regain the quality at any cost.

Best leave Tony B. alone for he's entitled to his opinion. Some of us on here are simple "purists" in the trade.

Just that he really cares .....

... and our "slip is showing" at certain times.

-Monte

 |  IP: Logged
Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

- posted 04-06-2010 10:35 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Geena Phillips
Tony, why do you even come to this section of the forum? I mean, I don't go to vinyl-enthusiast forums and knock the 180-gram virgin-pressing records out their hands. Honestly.

Why? Because I can. [evil]

Seriously, as Monte said (thanks Monte, BTW) I am a purist of the trade and am absolutely disgusted by the "dumbing down" and quality degradation that I have seen in this industry in the last several years. I have been in the biz since 1982 and am glad I was at least able to enjoy the (very) tail end of cinema's good times.

You only have to look at the various threads on this site to read about all of the HUGE screw-ups which are common with [dlp] and unlike film breaks cannot be readily corrected by booth personnel. They can't even decide on a standard image for [dlp] for cryin out loud. Film has standard formats that have served well for many years, the problem is that there is NO talent for storytelling in H'wood anymore.

And I love vinyl LPs btw and have kept my collection despite many offers from people who want to buy it. [Big Grin]

 |  IP: Logged
Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted 04-07-2010 01:40 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From one "purist" to another:

N/P, Tony - I know exactly where you're coming from and I've been in this business since 1969, thus I began to see the 'dumbing down' even in the early 70's ... so fire away..nobody is gonna talk smack about you..! Good Luck !

(..and I have over 4k vinyls with some 180 and 200grm pressings as well in this collection - and I need to unload all of this one of these days.....lol)

-Monte

 |  IP: Logged
Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 04-07-2010 08:01 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey,

I'll make either one of yous guys a super deal on all my direct to disk recordings... they're all that I saved out of my vinyl collection!

As much as I like film I plan on continuing to work in this industry at least until all my hair turns gray! So that also means working with digital... Now that the new Generation 2 projectors are here I have no problem selling these to customers so I am in full swing with Digital again. I had an interesting meeting with a major industry executive yesterday who predicted that film will be out of general use in this country in 5 years... Longer for South America and way longer for Canada because Gord is so slow at installing the new gear [Smile]

Mark

 |  IP: Logged
Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 04-07-2010 09:09 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
They can't even decide on a standard image for for cryin out loud. Film has standard formats that have served well for many years...
What are you babbling about? DCinema does indeed have standard image sizes and without having to allow for jump and weave.

Film has undergone about a bazillion image sizes...Scope has undergone a size change in the last decade or so too to settle in at 2.39:1.

As for series 2 causing one to cause one to be more pro DCinema....I would advise waiting at least a year before jumping in on them. They are definitely still getting the bugs out of them. All of the software incompatibilities are being worked out. This isn't a pick on DCinema but new versions in general...I prefer to be on that 2nd or 3rd wave and let the "others" be the beta testers.

My first Gen-2 system is now awaiting software updates for both the projector and the server! Ever look at the software update schedule from release to discontinuation...all of the updates are early on (or at least the frequency of them). On the Gen-1 TI software, we got up to 10 or ll on the 1.3K projectors. They only made it to 14 on the 2K versions with one version's primary purpose to get rid of a 3D license issue. And now we are back to square one again.

I also don't believe that film will be out in 5-years either and I'm sure that the Tech-3D has slowed down things a bit (but not entirely) as I await delivery on several Digital 3D systems for summer.

Steve

 |  IP: Logged
Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

- posted 04-07-2010 12:29 PM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
Film has undergone about a bazillion image sizes...Scope has undergone a size change in the last decade or so too to settle in at 2.39:1.
??

They settled at 2.39:1 in the early 70s. And AFAIK, the last time scope changed at all was 1993 when they made the width of the aperture the same as with flat. And 1993 is closer to 20 years ago than the past decade.

 |  IP: Logged
Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 04-07-2010 04:57 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You may be right then...closer to 20 years on Scope. But before that it was .690x.839, .700x.839..yadda, yadda, yadda....715x.838 (and I'm not even getting into the mag versions of the format...just the "standard" ones that run on optical sound machines).

It has hardly been a set-and-forget situation with film.

Steve

 |  IP: Logged
Tim OBrien
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Vassar, MI /USA
Registered: Jan 2010

- posted 04-07-2010 10:56 PM      Profile for Tim OBrien   Author's Homepage   Email Tim OBrien   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've read this impossibly long thread with great interest. The technical aspects, the business aspects and the ramifications that D-cinema represents to distributors, exhibitors and the movie-going public can be debated ad infinitum - and by those much more learned than I.

But one need only watch the climatic ending of "Cinema Paradiso" to realize what will have been forever lost when cinema is reduced to mere pixels on a screen.

 |  IP: Logged
Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

- posted 04-08-2010 03:25 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
What are you babbling about? DCinema does indeed have standard image sizes and without having to allow for jump and weave.
Really? How about some of the other threads I've seen on this site, just from memory D-Crapema has:

  • 2D flat
  • 2D scope
  • 3D flat, ghostbusted
  • 3D flat non-ghostbusted
  • 3D scope non-ghostbusted
  • 3D scope ghostbusted
  • Dolby 3D flat and scope
  • and Real-D flat and scope
That makes for 10 (ok 8 since Dolby and Real-D are processes rather than formats per se) incompatible formats and that's just from memory. IIRC there are still variations of the pixels used in each format too. And what the fuck is this "ghostbusted" and "non-ghostbusted" nonsense?
Call me whatever you want , a technical luddite if you wish, but D-Cinema is so FULL of [bs] it's no wonder it's taking forever for it to do it's planned takeover of film.

And let's not forget that movies have been released in multiple formats in D-Crapema too....
Very rare for a single film in 35mm (or 70mm for that matter) to have prints in flat and scope and 3d flat and 3d scope, etc.
Sheesh. [Roll Eyes]

 |  IP: Logged
Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 04-08-2010 03:33 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In the early days of cinemascope they shot flat and scope versions and 70mm was sometimes shot with a 35 and a 65mm camera side by side in the beginning

 |  IP: Logged
Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

- posted 04-08-2010 03:37 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Very true Gordon but that seemed to be the exception rather than the rule and it stopped happening quickly IIRC..

Either way the exhibition end wasn't being forced to take it up the bum like they are now...

 |  IP: Logged
Pietro Clarici
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 136
From: Foligno (PG) Italy
Registered: Sep 2008

- posted 04-08-2010 04:26 PM      Profile for Pietro Clarici   Author's Homepage   Email Pietro Clarici   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
(...) just from memory D-Crapema has: (...)
Actually, *as of now*, there's only 4: Flat and Scope, 2D and 3D.

The formats you listed (and some others, like reduced-res 3D Scope and Flat for EFIB projectors) were all used in the past, but not anymore.

Ghostbusting is a proprietary process used to reduce crosstalk (ghosting) afflicting Real D systems: every D-Cinema server does ghostbusting internally now, so pre-ghostbusted material won't be released anymore, as per DCI specs. Dolby 3D processing (color balancing between L and R channels) has *always* been done by the server.

The real problem with D-Cinema today is that *very few* people have actual experience with it. It takes time.

 |  IP: Logged


All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 18 pages: 1  2  3  ...  14  15  16  17  18   
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
- Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.