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Topic: I'm curious to know why many on Film-Tech seem to be so negative on digital cinema

Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 814
From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 12-16-2008 11:22 PM

Mark are the tags free or do you have to pay an arm and leg for them as well?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-16-2008 11:28 PM

The tags are free and come on many feature hard drives. Just ask distribution for a HD full of tags and previews so you can be properly equipped... they usually oblige. T.I. shipped DVD's to everyone I know that has DLP equipment. If you can't get any of the new T.I. tags I'd be happy to send you a copy. As for Doremi I don't know if they actually have any tags or not... don't think I've ever seen one.

Mark

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 814
From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 12-17-2008 11:18 AM

We are still in the research stage but hopefully they will do this soon. If not then in the next 11 years or so. Although I doubt that I get to retire at age 65 and am not sure I want to retire every. People tend to die after they retire!

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 12-19-2008 01:40 PM

quote: Mike Blakesley
I think what you meant is, it's not a cinema experience without film. To that I say, if they would eliminate all the digital-trumpeting crap that comes before the movie, the vast majority of people wouldn't know they weren't watching film.

To me, the "cinema experience" should also include curtains and digital sound/THX/digital cinema tags, fresh/edible popcorn, as well as courtesy and some measure of enthusiasm from the staff, but I haven't seen the first in a very long time, the second hasn't been around for going on 10 years or more, and the rest is variable at best.

I think it's funny/strange when I hear people gripe about the movie-going experience just not being the same with digital cinema vs. film, but yet the erosion of all of the other aspects of showmanship and customer service continues.

Very few people are going to be able to tell the difference between film done right and digital done right, but many can tell when the ticket taker hates her job and the popcorn needs to be sent back because it's stale or for fear of breaking your teeth on unpopped kernels.

Jump and weave and scratches are the same as pops and clicks from vinyl records. If given the choice, most people would rather do without them, even though there's a segment of the population that insists that vinyl is the only way to listen to music, almost relishing the pops and clicks as part of the "experience."

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Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 12-19-2008 06:49 PM

At the core of things really is this pervasive and destructive quest to save money, which is presumably coupled to short-term maximisation of profit for shareholders. That malaise has been under attack by good business commentators for some time, even more so now that such policies have been exposed as contributing to the emerging global recession.

So digital has been (mis)used as a tool in that project, and it's a shame because it's great for 3-D and digital animation, plus material that's been "born digital" too. But film still has a strong role to play in the poetic, expressive realms of drama. It should be both, rather than either / or.

The holy grail for quality exhibition is to somehow create a new economic model that allows the exhibitor to properly invest in staff and equipment whilst also keeping the studios happy.

A worthwhile goal to pursue, even if it sounds impossible [Wink]

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 814
From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 12-19-2008 10:38 PM

Ah but the theaters I ran with Curtains, lavish auditoriums, over blown restrooms, and where kept like they were expensive had a lot less vandalism than the ones that are cut out of the molds today!

So what is saving money building cheap so the customer thinks nothing about tearing it up or going back to the mold of "Oh my God how much did all this cost!"

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-20-2008 12:48 AM

quote: Ron Funderburg
where kept like they were expensive had a lot less vandalism

This is getting off topic, but we've found that if you fix any damage right away, less damage occurs. .

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 12-20-2008 08:33 AM

quote: Mike Blakesley
This is getting off topic, but we've found that if you fix any damage right away, less damage occurs. .

Contributing further to the off-topic, the same goes for grafitti. If you remove it or paint over it as soon as it is discovered then whoever is doing it tends to stop doing it.

A theater I worked at years ago (mid 90's) had a huge local middle class white wanna be gang kid problem and they would graffiti the back and side of the building. We institued daily checks in the morning and once we started removing it right away, they stopped painting it.

To get this back on topic...as I think I already said somewhere in this thread, I was very skeptical of 2K digital cinema being good enough until I saw it up close and saw how good it looked. It didn't look any worse than film even from right up at the screen except you saw a little lack of resolution instead of film grain.

Home HDTV/Blue-Ray is not a valid comparison. I assume it is mostly due to the JPEG2000 compression but Digital Cinema looks much better to me than any Blue-ray on a 1080p TV I've ever seen.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 12-20-2008 02:47 PM

Even further to back on topic, one only needs to look at some of the most recent threads about D-Crapema's technical glitches, breakdowns, compatibility issues and other nonsense..oh yeah, the the MUCH higher cost to install D-Shitema and one can see why some people (not naming any names.. [Roll Eyes]

) harbor a huge hatred of it. [Big Grin]

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 814
From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 12-20-2008 03:35 PM

I don't hate D-Cinema and think (for better or worse) it is the future. Film is inherently fragile the emulsion is laid on like layers of paint and easy to scratch. Then you add in bad projectionist, poor lab work, shoddy handling of film by transport and you can see why the quality could stay better in the digital domain.

What about home movies does anyone still shoot in 8 MM or super 8 MM film? If it is 8 MM it is probable video tape or digital. Now there has always been an group working in theaters that have expected the home stuff to be better than the theater, I could believe a theater owner coming to me and saying how wonderful my DTS sound was just as good as his home system. He said but “I'm with in driving distance of you and I don't like that you did that. If my customers don't hear it in a theater they wont know the difference!”

To me that was a suckie attitude to have.

The digital I have watched near me has never had an interruption of the film or break down. The picture was clear and crisp and certainly bright enough, though I haven't seen 3D in digital yet anywhere.

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 12-21-2008 12:00 PM

Trailer nomenclature.

FWIW, "tags" are something that go at the end, and reference an element which preceded, like the end of a short program or preview: "Remember, this Program Starts Friday," "And now, it's Showtime," or "Also Selected Short Subjects".

A "header" begins or introduces an event, like: "Previews of Coming Attractions," or "It's Intermission Time".

Snipes, logos, policys (sic), and bumpers are... well, snipes, logos, policys, and bumpers.

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Austin Pelnar
Film Handler

Posts: 10
From: Tallahassee FL
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 12-24-2008 12:22 AM

My cent worth.
Where to start the crawl, interpolation, compression crash (my terms for certian artifacts). Kodak said it all in an ad many years ago "only one medium sees an image like you do".
Its another step in dumbing it down and pushing the limits of what people consider quality. Digital cell phones made people not mind VOIP long distance so much. Internet multimedia made people not mind MP3's so much. DVDs made people not mind CG features. Now that weve been force fed digital television ohh digital cinema isnt so bad. Maybe its for the best, CG has taken over and looks terrible might as well present it in format that looks terrible too. I use the word present loosely shown is a more appropriate term.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 12-24-2008 01:51 AM

quote: Ron Funderburg
I could believe a theater owner coming to me and saying how wonderful my DTS sound was just as good as his home system. He said but “I'm with in driving distance of you and I don't like that you did that. If my customers don't hear it in a theater they wont know the difference!”

To me that was a suckie attitude to have.

Since I don't understand your convoluted description:
Are you saying a theater owner came to you and said your theater has just as good sound as his home theater but didn't like that because his work theater has bad sound (and his customers don't know the difference?

Or are you saying something else? Not to be rude but I just can't follow it.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-24-2008 07:03 AM

quote: Tim Reed
FWIW, "tags" are something that go at the end, and reference an element which preceded, like the end of a short program or preview: "Remember, this Program Starts Friday," "And now, it's Showtime," or "Also Selected Short Subjects".

Part of the meaning of the word "Tag" from Wikipedia...
"A tag is a non-hierarchical keyword or term assigned to a piece of information (such as an internet bookmark, digital image, or computer file)."

Ok Mr. Proper terminology! Then why are "previews" also called "trailers"? A "Tag" is nothing more than a label and FWIW "Tags" can typically go anywhere in the line up other than with in the body of the "feature". In fact I've heard the guys at Dolby refer to their's as "Dolby Tags".

What it is called may really depend more on where you live and the slang used in each locale than what the the proper terminology may or may not be. "Tag", "Snipe", or "Header". Hey, Isn't a "Headline" in a newspaper also called a "Header"?

Oh, and Tim... Those bits of film with the days of the week on them are called "daters"... not "Tags".

Mark

[ 12-24-2008, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: Mark Gulbrandsen ]

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 12-24-2008 05:28 PM

Trailers orginally where put on the "tail" of the feature....maybe they should have been called cabooses [Smile]

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