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Author
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Topic: I'm curious to know why many on Film-Tech seem to be so negative on digital cinema
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 03-16-2010 08:09 AM
While it is true there have been cancellations in film cinemas due to the odd failure of something...it is a VERY rare bird to cancel a day or evenings worth of shows. Most every thing in a film based system can be brought back on line within a show's time or less.
While this is true of DCinema as well...if you had the parts...the parts are SO expensive (and there are so many of them), few if anyone keeps spares either in the theatre or at the service agency.
Conversely, the common diode failure is quickly dealt with because the part is cheap enough that often the theatre itself has the spare on site. Normally, the most expensive part, the intermittent is on hand at the service agency as a loaner or repair/exchange. This is a great advantage of the film based systems mainly due to the fact that the projectors have not changed that much over the years. If you keep a Simplex, Century intermittent on the shelf, you've covered about 95% of your problems (in the States...in Europe, I would presume Cinemecanicca and Kinoton would be the movements to keep).
For soundheads, we keep an XL and SH-1000 gearbox and also an RCA (9030 and the like).
This isn't too much $$$$ to put on the shelf.
Now look at DCinema...what would it cost to keep a light engine handy? Or how about those TI boards? Got a server? Do you have the spares for that? The fact that this is still emerging technology means that if you DID stock them, your stock would be obsolete pretty fast. This is why when a DCinema theatre goes down, it often is 24-hours to restore it...one is waiting for the part to arrive, not that the repair was so god-awful-long. In fact, DCI requires that all repairs to be short, time wise (I forget the time but it is something like 2-hours or less). The Dolby DSS200 has got to be the easiest server to work on (if you have the part)...even the fans are plug in. I'd say the longest operation on it would be 30-minutes or less...depending on how much you fumbled with the cables/connectors changing the Cat 862...the rest of it is on the order of 5-minute repairs.
Steve
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Ramon Lamarca Marques
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 186
From: Edgware, England, UK
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 03-16-2010 05:46 PM
quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
As for your question, that will depend on the time and quality taken in the transfer process. I have seen great 2k to film and crappy 2k to film, and crappy film-to-digital and digital-to digital transfers.
All other things being equal, my guess is the 4k to film should look better.
This is very interesting, it could mean that an older technology -35mm- could look better than a newer technology -2K digital. Will 35mm prints from a 4K digital intermediate have more resolution than lie-max? If they look better than digital 2K, will film only cinemas promote that? So far, it has been proven that it was a lie that 3-D could only be done with digital, as many of us knew, it will also be proven that 3-D is not unique to theatres with the arrival very soon of 3-D home cinema, what when 35mm prints have got more resolution than 2K digital files, what are the digital advocates going to say to all those people who have invested in 2k digital projectors?
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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God
Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 03-18-2010 01:35 PM
Well Todd, we'll see how you feel after you experience some of the infamous D-Cinema crashes and have to deal with the hassles of refunds and then having to go somewhere else to try to see the movie. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
If you're so concerned about perfect presentation, save your money and get the bluray or DVD when it comes out. Nowadays, it is cheaper to do that than go to a theatre... by the time you factor in ticket price, parking, concessions, etc. I just cannot justify traveling out, paying for all of the above, just to go watch a big TV set with a bunch of other people yakking, munching popcorn and nachos, and talking on their cell phones.
I agree that most of L.A.'s theatres have crappy film presentations, even ones who should know better. (The two chains you named are notorious for hiring button pushers who have no business anywhere near a projector in any event.) But I have rarely seen a truly trashed print, and if so it would still be more tolerable than the image artifacts and other issues with D-Cinema.
I am old school...and I have never been upset by a bit of dirt or minor scratches on film..it is to me part of what makes film special, it is organic and not so sterile and perfect.
Of course, I don't want the films I'm projecting to be anything but pristine, but my current engagements at the University tend to almost make a perfect print a no way in hell happening.
A flawless film print is a treat for sure though, I have had the pleasure of running some archival prints at UCI and they are magical.
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Manny Montes
Master Film Handler
Posts: 270
From: United States
Registered: Feb 2010
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posted 03-18-2010 07:57 PM
my opinion on the matter may be a little newer as I've only been a projectionist for a short time relative to others here but, our art-form is great, creating "film done right" is an art form and it is something that takes time and skill. However my JOB and the industry is to make patrons happy, and digital has the ability to do that, I saw an Amazing sony 4k projector, on a nice screen and let me tell you, it has arrived. No annoying screen door image, it looks perfect every time.
My job is to project movies as best I can to make the customer happy, If I can ensure that the print will look as good 6 weeks down the line as it does during the first showing, I'm all for it.
Digital has a couple of issues to work out, but I feel like there are a lot of benefits to the customer that digital provides. I will say though that in about a year working with a digital projector i've seen no artifacts, no crashes, no anything but a perfect presentation. Maybe I'm lucky, but the worst that's ever happened was a 10 minute restart, which was fine as I could restart the movie from where it stopped.
I feel like a lot of people are afraid of change, especially tech people who dedicated their lives to film.
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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God
Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 03-19-2010 12:21 AM
quote: Manny Montes
.... Maybe I'm lucky, but the worst that's ever happened was a 10 minute restart, which was fine as I could restart the movie from where it stopped.
And that restart is ok in your book as a trade off? A film break would take an experienced projectionist no more than 2 minutes to fix and yes if you know what you're doing you can even restart before the break in that timeframe.
You have been very lucky so far..but your big D-Crapema crash is coming and you'll be wishing you had 35mm when it happens.
quote: Manny Montes
My job is to project movies as best I can to make the customer happy, If I can ensure that the print will look as good 6 weeks down the line as it does during the first showing, I'm all for it.
6 weeks? Try 6 months, as Brad will tell you it is possible to run 35mm for longer than a standard run with NO damage. Paying attention, keeping your projector clean and maintained and of course using Film-Guard and you can get longer than 6 weeks out of a print.
In my regular cinema days when I worked a multi, I had run some prints for over four months with minimal visible scratches/dirt (this was before Film-Guard) I'm wiling to bet there would have been NO visible scratches/dirt if I had F-G back then.
quote:
...and the industry is to make patrons happy,
The industry doesn't give a rat's ass about making anyone happy, least of all the patrons. They're out to make a buck and don't care what damage they cause in their chase for the mighty dollar. They sure as hell don't care about the exhibitors...
quote: Manny Montes
I feel like a lot of people are afraid of change, especially tech people who dedicated their lives to film.
I welcome change when it has tangible benefits without excessive cost. So far, D-Crapema costs 4-6 times what a 35mm setup costs, uses more electricity in many cases, has unproven reliability, high maintenance costs, built-in forced upgrade, and benefits no one except the studios. Film has served well for many years and can continue to do so if only the money wasted on D-Crapema was spent on training and hiring COMPETENT projectionists!!
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Manny Montes
Master Film Handler
Posts: 270
From: United States
Registered: Feb 2010
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posted 03-19-2010 12:51 AM
I agree with you that if we had competent projectionists we'd be fine, but the industry and most companies are headed toward hiring no brained button pushers who have no purpose in booth (my company is one of those sadly). I haven't been able to see a movie that is older than 3 weeks without it having a scratch or being dirty (except if I see it at my theater).
The exhibitors are trending to hire less and less skilled people and while I rather have a great 35mm experience, it simply isn't happening at most locations, the easy (but expensive) remedy is digital, and yes while digital is still being worked out it is expensive, but it will drop. I cannot see digital just disappearing.
Also you make a good point about the 35mm equipment, I've been to theaters and I see perfectly good equipment side idle next to the new digital projector, its wasteful. I would love to have a 35mm back up just in case a digital goes down.
As many people have said here, I love the fact that any problem with a 35mm projector can be fixed easily, or at least rigged temporarily to work. The feeling you get when you can fix a problem without having to stop a show. I love it, and I will miss it. But mostly, I feel like the digital transition will be a good thing. Though i'm iffy about 100% digital houses right now, its too much of an investment, it needs to be slowly phased in.
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