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Topic: Dolby's new sound system
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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012
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posted 07-16-2014 03:50 PM
quote: Scott Jentsch
In either scenario, this is not doom and gloom for a theater, nor is it doom and gloom for Dolby.
I disagree with you. I have changed my tune with regards to the theater experience versus that at home. With studios pushing for quicker releases on video, poor presentations (no masking or presentations with open masking) a clear lack of originality, especially in the summer months, the reasons for watching a movie in a movie theater are becoming less and less.
Other than, wanting to see a particular movie, there is very little that is attracting me to a movie theater these days. I wanted to watch Planet of the Apes this past weekend, I wanted to see it in Atmos but I do not want to see it in 3D, Planet of the Apes was FLAT, but there is no way I am going to the large multiplex theater near me that is playing a movie in scope as they just show it in flat with a letter box (common width/common makes no difference) presentation. I can live with no masking at all, but there is nothing worse than open masking with letterboxing added to the presentation.
Then there is the lack of magic, wonder, and awe of going to the movies. I remember in the 70s, 80s and mid 90s, I would leave the theater simply amazed by the movie. Now, before a movie starts, the pre-show shows you how the creators of Planet of the Apes created Caesar and who the live actor is and how it was done. The wonder and awe is gone, at it is sad.
quote: Scott Jentsch
I can see why this announcement is anathema to theater operators, but I don't see how this is any different than everything that has come before.
Theaters had Dolby surround, and then homes got Dolby Surround, Pro-Logic, etc.
Theaters had THX certification, and then homes got THX-certified equipment, and some lucky few could afford actually getting THX certification for their entire setups.
Theaters had Dolby Digital and DTS and SDDS, and then homes got Dolby Digital and DTS.
Homes got LPCM, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS HD Master Audio, and then theaters got LPCM. (Not exactly sure of the timing here, but I think homes beat theaters in this iteration)
Theaters got Atmos and Auro, and in the near future, homes will get Atmos
I disagree with you here as well. I am changing my tune of this idea as well. Home theater is destroying or has destroyed a certain segment of the movie going crowd that goes for new technology. While I don't have a real movie theater at home, my home cinema is a pretty decent 5.1 set up with good quality components and hardware, I can put on a pretty good show and with Master Audio and 1080p, the picture quality IMO can be on par or superior to going to a movie theater.
Atmos whether set up correctly or a HTIB set up just gives people even more reasons to not want to go to the movies. Shorter release schedules, Dolby 5.1, master audio, 1080p, home projectors all add up to a pretty excuse to not see certain movies at the theater.
If I had no possible way of watching a movie with 5.1 or a good picture, then I would probably have to go to the theater.
The movie theater really should have something that is impossible to replicated on any level or scale vs. the home.
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Marcel Birgelen
Film God
Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 07-16-2014 07:14 PM
quote: Brad Miller
These people will not get the same experience at home as they do the cinema, but just like THX did Dolby is permitting it to be called the same thing, thereby destroying any positive branding that Atmos has (or could've had going forward).
Publicly traded companies are driven by shareholders that want their returns, especially in close-to-zero-interest markets we're currently in. This move by Dolby was to expected, although I didn't expect it so soon already.
There is no reason to trust any publicly traded company to do the best for their customers. As soon as the possibility arises, they will screw their customer base ten times over if there is more money to be made on the short term. Dolby effectually proved that by screwing everybody who invested tons of money into their new sound system by destroying its brand-ability so fast.
If you want to get a "seal of quality", companies like Dolby, Barco, Datasat, etc. are not the ones you're looking for. The THX brand is owned by Logitech those days, so go figure...
I've ranted about this before, but in my rather humble opinion, there is still an opportunity for an independent quality label. Something like THX once was, one that's exclusively limited to professional auditoria. Maybe something that even more focuses on the whole package, rather than just the sound system.
It happens, I actually agree with Terry. (Although the answer most definitely isn't IMAX!) The movie theater business has been proclaimed dead since the invention of the television and although it did survive the video cassette, DVD and BluRay, there is definitely trouble brewing ahead. If my not-so-sophisticated home theater setup can already outperform the average multiplex experience by a long shot and the movie becomes available for download on Netflix the same day it's released, then, Houston, we do have a problem.
A movie theater needs to be more than just a dark box with crappy sound and mediocre picture. The problem is, who can discern between the Good, the Bad and the Ugly? That's exactly why a new, independent quality label is desperately needed...
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Marcel Birgelen
Film God
Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 07-17-2014 11:06 AM
quote: Mike Blakesley
The only problem with this idea is, a lot of moviegoers just pick the theater closest to them that's showing the movie they want to see. I don't think a majority of people will go out of their way to a more "premium-ish" theater. We've had this argument before, but I think a big reason for the huge grosses of "PLF" theaters is the higher ticket price + the fact that in any complex, it's the auditorium with the biggest movie and/or best showtimes for that popular title.
Sure, lots of moviegoers never cared about THX either, but there were also many that did. Especially amongst those who regularly go to the movies and it surely was part of the decision making process for many.
The current three-letter LPF lingo signifies nothing and you can't fool customers forever, especially those quite important repeat customers. As sad as it is, the only entity with some "strong" concept and branding going on right now might be IMAX...
quote: Brad Miller
There's only one problem with your idea Mike. Every one of those stupid theaters without masking would fail.
Actually, I fail to see how this would be a problem ![[Wink]](wink.gif) .
Proper masking is important and a theater that can't get their basics right doesn't deserve a thumbs up or the whole point of certification is moot.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 07-17-2014 12:15 PM
quote: Jonathan Goeldner
Maybe someone from LucasArts will actually mix the next Star Wars movie as such. Bring the circle back around: 70mm Dolby 'baby boom' for Ep. 4, Ep. 1 in 8-channel SDDS, Ep 7: 9.1 Dolby Atmos.
9.1 is a minimal configuration for a Dolby Atmos cinema installation, not to mention pretty minimal for a Atmos mix (although I've heard a couple that didn't sound much different than 7.1).
I don't remember any Star Wars episodes having a 5 up front mix. The original trilogy was released in 70mm Format 42 "Baby Boom," which had 3 stage channels; the 4th & 5th stage channels were turned into sub bass channels. The "Special Edition" versions were re-mixed in 5.1 split surround. I think the second, prequels trilogy were 5.1 also, despite SDDS being on the print. Most SDDS releases were just 5.1 and most SDDS theaters were only wired for 5.1.
Nevertheless, I totally expect the new batch of Star Wars movies to use Dolby Atmos. However, I have no idea how far J.J. Abrams will push the object oriented capabilities of Atmos. From what I've heard his last Star Trek movie wasn't a very aggressive Atmos mix in terms of sound object placement and panning.
quote: Marcel Birgelen
If you want to get a "seal of quality", companies like Dolby, Barco, Datasat, etc. are not the ones you're looking for. The THX brand is owned by Logitech those days, so go figure...
Any seal of quality thingie for theaters probably needs to come from some type of independent organization not trying to sell a bunch of equipment to theaters. There's lots of paid critics reviewing movies, but not really any professional level group of people reviewing movie theater auditorium design, sound/projection implementation and presentation quality.
I think a lot of movie theater operators would either be very hesitant to participate in a certification program or they would just refuse outright. They might see it as a means of outing them for bad presentation quality rather than allowing them to sell themselves on delivering good presentation quality. Like Brad said, all those common width big screen rooms lacking masking would fail right off the bat.
Some sort of organized effort could be put together, perhaps even by the Film-Tech community. I think we would deliver more accurate, fair results than the theater reviews you see on Yelp.
quote: Marcel Birgelen
The current three-letter LPF lingo signifies nothing and you can't fool customers forever, especially those quite important repeat customers. As sad as it is, the only entity with some "strong" concept and branding going on right now might be IMAX...
All those other private label big screen premium theater concepts have been pissing on the THX brand with their own meaningless three letter acronyms. Meanwhile IMAX has been pissing on its own brand name with its 2K resolution digital system. At least some people are starting to realize the acronyms have grown silly, hence AMC transitioning away from the "ETX" thing and doing more with "Prime."
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Maybe someone from LucasArts will actually mix the next Star Wars movie as such. Bring the circle back around: 70mm Dolby 'baby boom' for Ep. 4, Ep. 1 in 8-channel SDDS, Ep 7: 9.1 Dolby Atmos.
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