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Author Topic: D-Cinema...post your pros and cons of the different equipment Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 02-19-2011 07:44 AM                     It's "convenient" if you don't have an iButton on site (they do get misplaced) and don't want to get one. The next time you do convergence you don't have to worry about it. If you pull a card you'll still need it of course.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-19-2011 10:08 AM                     When we install a Barco, we chain it to the pedestal...the chain is long enough to use not long enough to leave! It won't be long before I have my own Dallas Key just to deal with this sort of thing. -Steve  |  IP: Logged Phil Ranucci Expert Film Handler Posts: 236 From: Carpinteria,CA, United States Registered: May 2006 posted 02-19-2011 02:01 PM                     Last time I tried to price a Dallas key from Barco it was $138. The ones that Google can find look identical. Anybody know if they'll work? I'd like to reset the service technician password since too many people know it. Is that possible?  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 02-20-2011 11:19 AM                     Any iButton will work, you want the "ID Only" model" which is, helpfully, the cheapest one. This should be in the $5.00 each range. If you want a bunch with the same ID number (so you can program all projectors to the same key and have all your techs carry one) this will be a custom order and cost more.  |  IP: Logged Amanda Mundin Expert Film Handler Posts: 122 From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK Registered: Sep 2005 posted 02-26-2011 02:11 PM                     There seems to be very little said about Kinoton's range of digital projectors, does anyone have opinions on these having installed or used them? Or perhaps why they chose not to install or use them?  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 02-26-2011 04:27 PM                     It's a german company with a large german installation base. I have no idea in how far it is a good idea servicewise to buy them outside central europa. I have no idea about their service capabilities outside germany. They are in the cinema business for a long time, they still build reknown FP30 35mm machines and accessoires. In germany, they are both manufacturer and integrator with local service stations. The base of their digital machines is BARCO components. The main things they add is lamphouse, rectifier, housing. Plus service. A lot of cinemas in germany choose Kinoton because they have a long lasting relation with them in 35mm equipment and service. That's probably the main reason Barco accepted them as OEM - unlike Christie, Barco wasn't in the cinema business before they started their DCI business. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 03-28-2011 04:19 PM                     Amanda, I've installed a bunch of Kinotons, in the UK and the ROI. Recently a colleague installed one in Nigeria of all places. What would you like to know?  |  IP: Logged Frank Bolkovac Film Handler Posts: 27 From: Monroeville, Pa. USA Registered: Mar 2011 posted 04-16-2011 12:53 PM                     Pros and Cons about Digital projection: Pro's, none. Audience doesn't care. Con's (CON) making you buy it...  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-18-2011 11:40 AM                        Thanks, Frank. Awesome first post.  |  IP: Logged Amanda Mundin Expert Film Handler Posts: 122 From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK Registered: Sep 2005 posted 04-19-2011 06:51 AM                     Hi Pete I was just wanting to know what people thought of Kinoton Digital Projectors, whether they are any better or worse than other Digital Projectors, people tend to speak very highly of Kinoton's 35mm projectors but I have seen very little said about the Kinoton digital range, I assumed that means that not many people are installing them, I just wondered why?  |  IP: Logged Bajsic Bojan Expert Film Handler Posts: 190 From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu Registered: Aug 2008 posted 04-19-2011 11:06 AM                     i would guess that the main one would be as carsten pointed out, its german based and so its not so readily available to some parts of the world (like the us). so its most of the times also more expensive than their counterparts. for us here, we have a different scenario for instance and installing kinoton is a prime choice, whereas christie, nec or barco dont have a service center within 400miles and definitely not in the country, no dealership so you basically contact them direct, little or limited support,... by comparison, its barco light engine with a kinoton projector chassis, really looks and feels more like a 35mm projector inside than most of the other 'video-like' projectors. it uses regular osram/ushio lamps so running cost for these is more comparable to 35mm than to expensive 'module' based systems. maybe what put inital buyers off is the fact that it looks clunky and unlike a 'digital projector' should, and that it is bulkier than the average build (few inches here and there). from what i was around of and having spoken to people who use them here (with integrated dolby 3d system), they are reliable and have been playing well, dont need many upgrades or changes made, they seem quite happy with lamp life (got up to 1600 with some noticable flicker on some 4kw ones), they are robust and quite intuitive. most dont use the alternative content switcher/scaler so cannot comment on those  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-19-2011 12:03 PM                     Kinoton is said to float the the light engine/lens so it is not susceptible to vibrations too. I think a key reason you don't see them in the USA is cost. The Dollar/Euro makes Kinoton particularly expensive, if for no other reason than exchange rate. -Steve  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 04-24-2011 03:18 PM                     That is true Steve, the whole 'optical bench' is resilient mounted. It works well. They are more robustly built than the others, but heavier. Lamphouse is roomier than the others therefore easier to service and it uses their ignitor, mirror etc. Pricewise for you they'd be comparable with anything else. The principal reason we don't see many in the UK is that the DSN got their first with Christie and NEC, people are sheep and follow the herd, mostly. However there are an increasing number installed in the UK and Ireland now, Zeferellis in Ambleside is all Kinoton digital, Ambassadors Woking has them and the West End in Boston Lincs too. Plaza Workington, Palace Devizes, Eye Galway ROI and a handful of other places, even the odd miners welfare.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-24-2011 03:36 PM                     quote: Steve Guttag I think a key reason you don't see them in the USA is cost. The real reason you don't see them and Cinemecanicca here in the states is because they are liscensed by BARCO and the greed runs high at BARCO USA. They want the states all to themselves. There was a kinoton on display at Cinemacon though. I see no advantage in floating the light engine unless you are running an operation like the Bijou Kinema . In fact it may actually may be detrimental to lens to screen alignment over time. I certainly don't see it as anything that would help in the long run. DLP Projectors don't really have any internal vibration sources excepting the internal fans unless the 6:00 Northbound is flying past the north wall of the Kinema. The rubber isolators used might deterioate with age and then alignment would drift slowly off. Most rubber isolators I have seen used in equipment do deterioate over time!! The better idea might be to isolate large cooling fans, cooling pump, and the rectifier if it's of the iron core type, or what ever might produce vibration inside the unit. The rest of the unit ought to be very solid. I don't know what if anything Cinemecanicca does in this regard. Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-24-2011 06:09 PM                     Kinotons are said to have much less noticeable vibration on screen by those that have actually seen them. I can accept it as a design improvement. Your statement about Kinoton in the US due to Barco greed is ALL WRONG...As a Kinoton dealer, I've asked about importing them...the only hanging point was the cost. In Europe, Kinoton projector costs are in line with other projectors in Europe. But in the states...if a projector costs say 40K Euro, it turns into $58,400 once it hits the shores, excluding freight. The 46% increase is way too much to absorb in these days of near zero profit sales. -Steve  |  IP: Logged

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