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Author
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Topic: Dolby Cinema
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Antonio Casado
Film Handler
Posts: 36
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Apr 2013
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posted 12-04-2014 11:07 AM
quote: Bobby Henderson
Right now, razor-thin flat panel OLED TV displays are very expensive, high end items. But they're not going to be that way forever. The contrast ratios and deepness of black on those screens is utterly amazing
I have one OLED TV (LG 55EC930V) and the blacks they have is the best thing that I see in my life. The "blacks" of ANY cinema screen makes me laugh. Including this Dolby Vision or future Laser Projection, of course.
I mean...the screen is WHITE. So, any light, as minimum, will light the surronding space in that white screen, so the "black" will be...grey.
I think that in a very future the cinemas screens will be giant OLED screens, 8K or 16K ready, and then YES, we will really know the excellence of a true HDR image. Not the current cinema screens, sorry.
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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012
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posted 12-04-2014 02:22 PM
This Dolby Cinema concept look more like a cross between a PLF and a small to medium VIP type theater. The dynamic/audio video pathway and the sensory way finding audio looks pretty pointless to me, people usually know how to enter a movie theater.
Something tells me that Dolby Atmos is not tracking all that well with the younger crowds ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) , the video at Dolby.com appears to show that the Dolby Atmos surround speakers are hidden behind acoustic panels. Why would you hide the speakers? Perhaps younger folks think it is an eyesore?
quote: Steve Guttag
I just don't see cinema owners clamoring for more means to spend money to show movies.
Dolby is about 6-7 years to late with this product, PLF screens are already over saturated in the marketplace and there really is only so much room to add more capacity. I doubt this concept will catch on.
From the wording of the press release, it appears that there will be two projector upgrades needed, the laser projectors that will initially be installed will not have Dolby Vision, the Dolby Vision projectors will come at a later date. This is a bit odd ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
quote: Sam Graham
Mounted at the top and bottom but open on the ends. You can listerally stick your hand around it or under it on the corners.
The lighting shuts off during the feature and the curtains and walls up front are all pitch black, so during the feature, I noticed no difference watching the movie over a masked screen. However, the lights are ON during the trailers, and that experience was like watching a really poorly lit Samsung curved screen television.
Cineplex now does this for their VIP theaters and the look and esthetics of the cinema is what they are after when you enter the cinema. I too have no problem if there is no masking at all, as long as it is not on a flat screen with the masking left open.
And from the Dolby site:
a sophisticated space that is carefully designed to maximize your immersion in the story.
dramatically different visual experience.
I don't know about the others on here, but I am sick and tired of the words immersion, immersive, and experience that comes along with just about everything these days.
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Marcel Birgelen
Film God
Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 12-04-2014 04:06 PM
Dolby Vision isn't really an end-to-end technological solution. It's more like a set of specifications.
The idea is not just to improve the contrast or make white more white. It intends to broaden the color gamut of images, to more realistically simulate nature. So, not only brighter white, but also brighter yellow, brigher red, etc.
Current DCI specs are based on what could be achieved with film, current TV specs are based on what could be achieved with CRT screens. The new generation laser projectors, OLED and LED technology can achieve a much broader color gamut, but is limited by the current way content is created and encoded.
So, they drastically increased the "color palette", essentially and extremely simplified: it's like extending the color palette beyond "0xFFFFFF" (or rather 0xFFFFFFFFF) as the brightest you can go in any direction. I'm not sure if they actually increase the bandwidth for this or if they deem 12 bits per color sufficient.
Dolby has devised a new format for this content, called Dolby Vision and a few manufacturers will release Dolby Vision capable equipment.
quote: Steve Guttag
My guess is that they achieve the high contrast in a similar manner in which they did it for "Dolby Monitor"...since they are using laser projection, it is possible to modulate the light source.
You can indeed modulate the light source instantly and without any delay. This is even more powerful than what you can do with stuff like dynamic iris, because there will be no delay. There's one catch though: you can't modulate it via strobing, because it will interfere with the DMD modulation.
quote: Marco Giustini
I read that it is made by using two light engines in series. One chip creates the light pattern for the second chip, which creates the picture. When black is needed, the first DMD gets rid of most of the light, the second chip will only need to get rid of the leftover.
The problem here is that DMDs modulate light by switching it on and off. If you put two mirrors in sequence, you need a very exact timing pattern to make this work correctly. You will also lose a lot of light by putting two DMDs back to back, plus you will need to refocus the light after it exited the first DMD.
I've read about LCoS modules in front of a DMD in an experimental setup for a planetarium projector. Their "blackness problem" is even bigger than in normal cinemas. In my very personal opinion, those planetariums now running on digital projectors really look like crap. Everything is grey and the stars look very washed out.
quote: Daniel Schulz
Dolby has been quite open about their intent to push Dolby Vision into consumer video displays. They were running demos at CES this past year.
Yes, there will be Dolby Vision capable OLED screens, they will be in 4K and will be expensive, at least for now. So, the cinema market will get practically no head-start. Then again, it won't be long before the rest of the industry will follow with their own "Dolby Vision" implementations...
quote: Antonio Casado
I have one OLED TV (LG 55EC930V) and the blacks they have is the best thing that I see in my life. The "blacks" of ANY cinema screen makes me laugh. Including this Dolby Vision or future Laser Projection, of course.
Have you seen it yet?
quote: Antonio Casado
I mean...the screen is WHITE. So, any light, as minimum, will light the surronding space in that white screen, so the "black" will be...grey.
This is partly to blame on high gain screens (including silver screens). Normal, properly masked white screens, absorbing walls and a minimum of ambient light will keep reflections and greyness to a minimum.
quote: Antonio Casado
Here in Spain the majority of the screens aren´t masked...In fact I remember to see one or two masked screens in my whole life here (42 years...)
See, there's part of your problem.
quote: Marco Giustini
Then what we do, we just don't do anything and we wait till massive OLED screens are affordable?
You don't need OLEDs for massive screens, but you could theoretically use massive LED screens. I've seen several demos of 4K LED walls and from a certain distance, they look VERY impressive. The problem is the massive screen door effect though, once you get up close to them.
There are plenty of other problems for usage in a commercial cinema, like speaker placement problems, the fixed resolution of those things, costs, maintenance, etc.
quote: Bobby Henderson
In the end, there appears to be some purpose in having the speakers hidden. The Dolby Cinema room is not a typical oblong box shape. The angled walls and ceiling appear to do more in controlling and/or eliminating unwanted sound wave reflections. A bunch of surround speakers sticking out of the walls and ceiling are going to have at least some effect on sound wave reflections.
It's not just about limiting sound reflections, but also to limit the light bouncing back onto the screen from the walls.
quote: Mike Blakesley
As for the ever-increasingly immersive thing... I'm all about good sound. I love good sound, but I just don't see the huge need for all this immersivity or whatever you want to call it, especially if it's going to double (or more) the cost of a movie ticket. When I am watching a movie I get involved in what's going on on the screen. I'm not exactly caring if the bullet hits are in a certain spot overhead vs. just coming from the side. Just plain old surround sound gets the job done for me.
I do agree with you on this one. The main attraction is still just the movie itself. And if the theater gets it right and avoids unnecessary distraction, a lot of those technical bells and whistles are just a bunch of gimmicks. Then again, the only way for technology providers like Dolby to stay relevant is to come up with something new once a while. Also, if you're in a hugely competitive market, where everybody competes with essentially the same content, you will need some distinguishing features to stay ahead of your competition.
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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012
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posted 12-04-2014 07:39 PM
quote: Mike Blakesley
Even the Dolby screening room has the speakers hidden behind acoustic panels, and it's just a rectangular room. It's nothing to do with the sound, it's just aesthetics.
I'm sure some architect designed this Dolby thing and part of the design was not having ugly boxes sticking out of the walls.
I never knew about the Dolby screening room not having exposed speakers, I figured they would not have them covered up. I think Dolby did some research on the new generation of movie-goer which this Dolby cinema looks to be aimed at, folks around 21-28 year of age, I would assume they are more likely use a sound bar at home, watch on Netflix off their phone, and pay $25 for the VIP treatment. I figure part of the Dolby Atmos "experience" (I just said it) would be to actually see the speakers when you enter the cinema, I must admit the lay out of an Atmos cinema with all the speakers hanging everywhere kinda looks like shit, perhaps Dolby figured that out.
This is the new Cineplex Atmos VIP: This is what people are paying $25 for.
I am bit surprised that Dolby would hide the speakers with their new concept.
In contrast, IMAX throws their logo on everything the customer can see:
quote: Mike Blakesley
Probably about 98% of moviegoers are what you would call "average moviegoers," meaning they just want to see a movie and have it look and sound good. They don't require the latest bells'n'whistles. I watched the trailer for the new Star Wars last night in my own theater, with the sound on a nice loud "6," and I was suitably impressed. Would I have been twice as impressed if the sound had been Atmos? I doubt it.
I think this is just it, most people just want to watch the latest movie. I know a few people who were less than thrilled about Interstellar in 15/70 IMAX and they were equally unimpressed with Expendables in AVX with Atmos, they said to me they just want to watch the movie in a nice auditorium and sit in the back row, and they don't want the sound to be overly loud.
quote: Mitchell Dvoskin
There is a saying, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me multiple times, I must be a theatre owner.
That is pretty funny ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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