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Topic: Dolby Cinema
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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012
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posted 12-06-2014 12:42 PM
quote: Carsten Kurz
I'm not sure on the economics of this. Is there a clear statement already on what exactly Dolby pays for? Projection, Atmos system, wall displays? This could easily cost 1.000.000+ How long will it take Dolby to get into the earning stage, and how many cinemas can expect the attendance to make up for all the cost, both exhibitor and Dolby? There are certainly places that can achieve this, but what will be the economical outcome for Dolby?
From the press release, it appears the cinema is on the hook for the build of the auditorium while Dolby will supply the equipment to make it all come together. It will take a lot of cinemas installations to make the economies of scale work, Dolby is also going to need to get the major chains like AMC, Cineplex or Regal to sign up for this up and I just don't see that happening in the North American market. Right now the North American market is over saturated with regular screens as well as PLF screens. Also, early cinemas will not have Dolby Vision as that will come a little later, early projectors will just be laser.
quote: Marco Giustini
The whole speaker is just ugly as pointed out, particularly the subs.
Just imagine having this in your living room ![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 12-06-2014 02:46 PM
An earthquake falls under the old "act of God" thing. Good luck trying to sue over falling debris from that.
quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
It will take a lot of cinemas installations to make the economies of scale work, Dolby is also going to need to get the major chains like AMC, Cineplex or Regal to sign up for this up and I just don't see that happening in the North American market. Right now the North American market is over saturated with regular screens as well as PLF screens.
The premium screen market is indeed over-saturated. But the market is over-saturated with premium screens not worth the price of their surcharge.
While IMAX is still dinking around trying to get their laser projection system ready other theaters are getting ready to deploy their own in rooms without an IMAX brand. Warren Theaters is opening two such 4K laser based screens this Wednesday in Broken Arrow, OK. Those same houses boast Dolby Atmos systems in their maximum configuration, THX certified no less.
If I pay extra to see a movie in a Cinemark "XD", Regal "RPX" or one of Carmike's "Big D" theaters I'm probably going to encounter a theater with just one projector, possibly only 2K even, and either 5.1 or 7.1 sound. I can get that in any regular priced theater! Why do I need to pay extra for one of those acronym labeled houses?
The standards bar for premium cinema is going to be raised. Some theater operators may stick with IMAX, but demand IMAX get their shitty 2K projection and 5.1 sound upgraded ASAP. Others might ditch at least some of their private label premium screens and replace them with Dolby Cinema theaters instead.
Either way, movie theater operators will have to start doing to serious upgrades on those premium priced big screen theaters. They can't keep charging extra for what's really standard projection and sound. For some, they might pay for laser projection and sound system upgrades on their own. Others may think it's more economical to go the partnership route with either IMAX or Dolby.
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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012
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posted 12-06-2014 03:40 PM
quote: Steve Guttag
but if you are in a competitive market, then everything you do that can give yourself a bigger piece of a pie you are sharing is key...so long as there really IS a ROI.
I do agree with you here, if a theater chain is in a highly competitive market then anything to give yourself an edge will help. I just don't see the point of the video screen inside the hallway or audio visual pathway doing anything for the ROI, and that fact that theater will need another projector upgrade from Dolby is a little strange ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
I think THX would have a better chance and penetrating the current market than this Dolby Cinema thing. I bet THX would omit the need for masking in this current day and age ![[thumbsdown]](graemlins/thumbsdown.gif)
This Dolby Cinema things reminds me of how auto manufacturers create a strange looking concept only to never release it to the public, but it this case Dolby has create a strange concept with stealth bomber style side walls only to in fact release it to the public.
quote:
Terry,
I like that the guy took some time to (badly) fix some plastic ducts on the wall to make the whole contraption less ugly! [Smile]
I guess that might be the defining example of Dolby ![[Moon]](graemlins/moon.gif) -mos
quote: Terry Monohan
Wait till California gets hit with a major huge earthquake and all the junkie overhead speakers come down on peoples heads, will the patrons sue the theatre chain or Dolby® At least If the speakers are hidden they may not do as much damage to your body.
Introducing, Dolby Atmos: Earthquake All Around You
quote: Steve Guttag
Naturally, if you are in a small town, it is unlikely that the expense would ever be repaid..
From what I understand, laser projection will not likely make it into the smaller cinemas, the upgrade will just be too costly to implement. The largest screens will get it but not all of the large screens.
Have you had a chance to see a demo of laser yet?
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Marcel Birgelen
Film God
Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 12-06-2014 04:18 PM
quote: Steve Guttag
Naturally, if you are in a small town, it is unlikely that the expense would ever be repaid...but if you are in a competitive market, then everything you do that can give yourself a bigger piece of a pie you are sharing is key...so long as there really IS a ROI. I'm sure the money people have worked out what it has to do to be profitable for both sides.
It's clearly targeted right at IMAX. And if it works for IMAX, why couldn't it work for them? Especially in markets where IMAX never was a "household brand".
quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
Right now the North American market is over saturated with regular screens as well as PLF screens. Also, early cinemas will not have Dolby Vision as that will come a little later, early projectors will just be laser.
The great thing is, the European market isn't over-saturated with crappy Digital IMAX screens, our market is just over-saturated with crappy regular screens. So that's probably why Dolby sees an opportunity to pilot it in Europe...
Also, even the first installations will have "Dolby Vision", but no content yet. A common issue for early adopters.
quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
I think THX would have a better chance and penetrating the current market than this Dolby Cinema thing. I bet THX would omit the need for masking in this current day and age
I doubt THX will ever matter for Cinema again. That brand is dead for the exhibition market and Logitech (the current owner for $#%& sake) has shown zero interest in reviving it for those purposes.
quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
This Dolby Cinema things reminds me of how auto manufacturers create a strange looking concept only to never release it to the public, but it this case Dolby has create a strange concept with stealth bomber style side walls only to in fact release it to the public.
You're mixing up your airplanes... And you forget the fact that the first actual Dolby Theater will open in 12 days.
quote:
I guess that might be the defining example of Dolby [Moon] -mos
Yawn. Really? Are we back in kindergarten? Or is this your standard escape when logical arguments fail?
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We saw a laser demo at CinemaCon in 2012. It was brighter, but not up to the level of "OMG I have to replace my projector right now!"
Most projectors are also just fine for their given screen sizes, at least in 2D. What almost nobody is showing though, is how this "extended color gamut" content actually looks.
The problem here is: yeah, it looks great, but do we want our movies to look like this? Remember the first HFR demos? Most people were rather excited, but once we got it in feature length, we started to doubt the merits, especially if you consider the costs of it all.
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 12-07-2014 07:15 AM
i actually don't recall the screen size.
As for the laser demo...there was no perceived improvement in terms of picture for me. To me, the subject of lasers in projection is one of economics. That is, if one were to switch to lasers would one lower or raise their TCO? If you are using 4500 and larger lamps, particularly if you are in the 6KW+...you can see where you'd save money by switching. There would be a higher cost up front but lower cost over the expected life of the projector.
If you are still into the 3D fad and are using Dolby 3D, the 6P laser systems (6 primaries) turn Dolby 3D from the least efficient to the MOST efficient (no more filter wheels so ALL of the light gets to the screen...the only filter left are the glasses). So in a single projector system (Barco), you can theoretically get near 50% efficiency (you don't wheel transition and each eye is only on the screen 1/2 the time). Christie went with a 2 projector approach with 3P in each projector. So like in LS systems, both eyes are on the screen at all times. One can lower the gain back down AND have 3D at the same light levels as 2D.
XpanD also benefits from lasers though not in light efficiency but since again the larger lamps that last a short time and cost quite a bit are no longer needed. If the screen gain can be lowered, the quality of the image goes up.
If you have a smaller lamp 3KW and below...it is never economically advantageous for you to use Lasers (at their current price range).
Perhaps if you are in an "S2K" projector that has nasty contrast, lasers might help a bit but then you lose the cost savings on the initial purchase you were going for so it seems counter productive there.
So in short, if you are typical cinema...I wouldn't worry about lasers at this stage, they make no economic sense and there is no marquee value.
Since I don't have the specifics on Dolby Vision, they might be using the lasers to dramatically increase contrast ratio...something DLP is not the best at achieving, particularly on the smaller mirrors used in the 4K and S2K projectors.
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