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Author Topic: Gemini Man - HFR Test Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-08-2019 12:45 PM                     Yeah, I was going to say that the CAT745 systems were/are good up to 500 Mbits/sec so it isn't just the bandwidth. I suppose that the IMS2000 can probably handle this movie but I didn't ask though I'd think that the IMS3000 has substantially more horsepower and Dolby would have an incentive to keep it on top of technology.  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 03-08-2019 04:40 PM                     I also don't think it's the data-rate itself, but a combination between data-rate and specific JPEG2000 decompression complexities. With higher frame rates, there is also less time per frame to decompress the frames themselves. That might also choke the hardware. I guess this clip is unfortunately encrypted? I would love to try it on an Alchemy.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 03-08-2019 06:34 PM                     It works on an Alchemy. If you still want to download it, there's instructions on how to get KDMs. https://ql.mediasilo.com/#ql/5c630928e4b05d699980d7ad But it's boring tech stuff, nothing from the actual movie, so, everyone else, calm down... - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 03-09-2019 02:36 AM                     Thanks Carsten! I'll see if it's worth the trouble of getting a KDM for it.  |  IP: Logged Greg Routenburg Expert Film Handler Posts: 178 From: Toronto, ON, Canada Registered: May 2003 posted 03-11-2019 03:09 PM                     It's also worth mentioning... GDC informed me that if anyone is running an early SX-3000, there may be an issue with the hard drives that were provided. Some of the early drives have trouble keeping up with the data rates. They can provide updated drives if necessary. They will also issue a one or two day "test license" to allow for adequate testing of the content before requiring you to purchase the license for HFR.  |  IP: Logged Kirk Futrell Film Handler Posts: 95 From: Nashville, TN / U.S.A. Registered: Nov 2008 posted 03-15-2019 04:12 PM                        We just tested the Gemini HFR test last night on a ShowVault with IMB in a Barco 4K 23B. The test seemed to work fine, but we did have a weird, barely noticeable thing happened to the image. When playing at 120 fps, there was a strange color halo effect during the action scenes. The way another projectionist described it is color smearing. Or maybe like a delay or sync issue with the DLP chips. Specifically in the Gemini test there is a guy riding a motorcycle. He is wearing a black helmet. Right before the helmet moves in a certain direction there is a thin red halo in the direction to where the helmet will move. Also there is a roofline in the distance and there is a red halo above the roofline occaisonally as the roof moves upwards on screen. We had previously done tests at 96 fps and noticed the same thing. It does not seem to happen to 48 or 60 fps DCPs. Another thing we noticed is the Doremi has to load the alternate firmware to play it. The normal firmware we are using is 30.11B and the alternate is 30.08H-2 The color issue does not happen while paused, but there is a strange flickering that happens while paused that is unrelated to the bulb. This too is barely perceptible and only through certain sections of the image. Any ideas on what is causing these issues so I know whether to contact Barco or Doremi?  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 03-15-2019 04:54 PM                     That halo effect is pretty strange. You often see the same when color convergence is way off, but I guess that's fine in your setup. It feels like one of the primary colors gets out of sync, but the only location where I can imagine it to get out of sync is in the server or IMB, because there is a lot of potential buffering there. But, on the other hand, the colors aren't separated yet there. The next thing that could have some buffering for a few frames is the ICP, which should also output RGB data. Then it comes down to the formatter board, which shouldn't have a lot of buffer either...  |  IP: Logged Tacky Ting Film Handler Posts: 18 From: Hong Kong / China Registered: Jan 2015 posted 03-16-2019 01:42 AM                        Dolby just released a test report https://photos.app.goo.gl/y8W2J3pWYaLzY6kF7  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-16-2019 12:31 PM                     "The normal firmware we are using is 30.11B and the alternate is 30.08H-2" Current firmware versions: Normal: 30.11c Alternate (HFR): 30.08m Maybe check with these?  |  IP: Logged Greg Routenburg Expert Film Handler Posts: 178 From: Toronto, ON, Canada Registered: May 2003 posted 03-19-2019 11:42 AM                     Here's the photo that Tacky linked to in his post...  |  IP: Logged Jonathan Jensen Film Handler Posts: 23 From: Copenhagen V, Copenhagen/Denmark Registered: Sep 2010 posted 03-19-2019 07:51 PM                     @Brad: quote: Steve Guttag So just when was HFR 3D embraced so much in the past that people still give this guy money to make more? Why must the industry play to his experiments? It's the movie first, not the tech. I respectfully diagree. I personally embrace HFR and highly respect Ang Lee's pursuit of perfecting this tech. HFR wasn't a hit from the get-go, true, but what happended to "If at first you don't succeed, Try, try, try again"? At least Trumbull, Ang Lee and Jim Cameron has the gut to use their position, money and influence to actually push the technological boundries and take their time doing it - instead of rushing it. Any new tech takes time to master, even though it's not new, it's just more accessible for both the artists and the exhibitor 2D/3D HFR (4K) is super complex. All parameters around HFR changes because of the way our brains percieve moving images over time. Everyone involved in planning and shooting the movie needs to rethink and relearn camera movements and everything else when shooting in HFR. Add 3D to the equation, and it gets really complicated to pull off. Adding Higher resolutions introduces even more complexity! Trumbull, Ang Lee, Jim Cameron and whoever else who has the stones to pursue new technological frontiers should be welcome to put our industry through as many hoops as necessary to have it tested on a large scale. It's not enough to just test in the lab and show industry people some demo behind closed doors. However, should HFR become a hit at some point, we're likely to see The Dark Side of Hollywoo milk the new cash cow and churn out 'Clash Of The HFR Titans' and so forth - which will give good tech a bad rep... again. Here's to hoping that people are less greedy and short sighted when HFR breaks! ;-) I too often remimiss about the beauty of virgin 35mm prints at steady 24fps on a matt white screen, but we're in 2019 and that is mostly in the past. -Jonathan  |  IP: Logged Jim Cassedy Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1661 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Dec 2006 posted 03-19-2019 08:12 PM                     quote: Brad Miller Wouldn't it just be easier to project on real film? Actually, I'm kinda hoping it gets released on 70mm/60fps, and on 2K reels. Lets see- - that would be a change-over about every 7 minutes, which would sure make my evening interesting! Earplugs would probably be necessary, as I'd imagine a 70mm intermittent would make quite a racket at that speed, and would probably need to be water or oil cooled to keep from seizing. - - but it would sure be a fun shift to work !  |  IP: Logged Tacky Ting Film Handler Posts: 18 From: Hong Kong / China Registered: Jan 2015 posted 03-20-2019 12:45 AM                        In 2016, Billy Lynn’s Long Halftime Walk can play 2K 3D 60fps (DSS220+CAT745). Why can't Gemini Man play? Do you want to use 4.8.9.12 Version?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-20-2019 07:27 AM                     Because they keep "experimenting" with this stuff. They are beta testing in real theatres. There is something different in how they mastered this one. Hopefully, they'll figure it out but I stand by what I said previously...HFR hasn't shown itself to have much, if any customer appeal. I'm not against HFR but I'm against how this HFR is being handled. I also think it would be best to divorce HFR form 3D (which I definitely dislike in its present form). There is coming a point where the Dolby DSS stuff will be stuck in time like most anything that started before 2010 and I don't think new technology should be held back just due to that. That said, it would better serve their purpose to ensure the maximum compatibility with the installed base of servers, including the DSS stuff. They should have allowed 2D/60fps (like Billy Lyn). If they think that HFR will grow on the public, get a bigger swath of people to see it. All of our Dolby DSS/CAT745 systems that are set up for 3D are set up to run 24, 25, 30, 48, 60 fps and we've never had problems with other content (1-offs, seemingly). It should be noted, if you have a DFC100 with Dolby 3D then you have to choose 30fps or 60fps due to how it works (there are only so many frequencies it locks onto...it understands 60Hz but not 90Hz so you either get 60fps single flash or 30fps double flash. With a Barco and Dolby 3D, you can set up separate 3D files and filter wheel frequencies to have them all). So I fault this new content for being different and experimental. The facts still remain, the moving going public has not shown any real interest in HFR.  |  IP: Logged Kirk Futrell Film Handler Posts: 95 From: Nashville, TN / U.S.A. Registered: Nov 2008 posted 03-20-2019 02:25 PM                        Thanks,Dave. Firmware fixed the issue. By the way, before we updated the firmware we dug a little deeper and figured out the Red channel was ahead exactly 1/24th of a second or 5 frames at 120fps.  |  IP: Logged

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