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Author Topic: Trinnov Ovation Sound Processor Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-29-2019 02:07 PM                     Brad, I agree. But tell me this...have you found even ONE claim of someone that has put in the Trinnov Ovation (1 or 2) that didn't think the sound was a significant improvement? In speaking with technicians (as I'm apt to do because let's face it, those that just spent money are pre-conditioned to believe the money they spent did amazing things), I've yet to find a single naysayer. In fact, just the opposite. They are the simple installation because it tunes itself and sounds really good doing it...less work. You have a home theatre (with DCPs as well as film and video)...give it a shot. I'm sure Mr. Babb would spot you one to do the test. If my home theatre was up, I'd certainly do the challenge. For me, the Ovation is in an awkward area, price/feature wise. It isn't the cookie cutter area of the DPM/CP950/JSD60/JSD100 world (price/installation wise) and it is nowhere near the flexibility of Q-SYS. So the problem comes down to that customer that is willing to pay extra for the mere claim of "better sound" with no marquee appeal but wouldn't also benefit from the likes of Q-SYS and its incredible flexibility (and now the ability to deal with HDMI sources). Back in the day, what allowed me to sell a "better" processor was it was more flexible. That is, a Panastereo system was 10dB quieter than Dolby (great for screening rooms), was much more friendly to control systems of the day (RS232), had MANY inputs (Three 5.1 inputs), a great remote/booth monitor system...etc. So it wasn't just that it "sounds better." Then again, the Ovation has multi-channel analog inputs...so there is that!  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-29-2019 02:27 PM                        We've been using our Ovation for about a month now. I am impressed with the sound. I think the highs are more defined and overall it just has a nicer sound. (Our technician described it as "less barky.") We changed over in the middle of a movie's run, so I was glad to be able to get an A/B comparison on the same movie. I find the dialog to be more intelligible too. The most recent Star Wars IX trailer has a nice musical crescendo at the end that sounds absolutely outstanding when cranked up. We even watched an old movie for fun yesterday and even the 1980s-vintage sound from the Blu-Ray was excellent. I cannot say that I can see the sound traveling across the room, but I wasn't expecting to see that anyway! It's also nice to know that there is a "company guy" right here on Film-Tech to answer questions. That's something we never got with Dolby.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-29-2019 06:24 PM                     Mike Renlund chimes in from Dolby from time-to-time. I would presume the more corporate/public the company the tighter the reigns they place on employees representing the company in such a manner.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 11-29-2019 06:37 PM                     Steve, you are correct I have not heard of a single person stating the Trinnov wasn't an improvement and I've no doubt it's a reputable unit. I just find some of the reviews a little bit TOO over the top, and THAT is what makes me question things. (You have to admit "seeing the sound" is beyond ridiculous and it completely discredits the entire review.) For me to take someone's review seriously, I want to know what was in there before (speakers and everything included) vs. what is in there once the Trinnov was installed. The whole point of reviewing the Trinnov is to review THE TRINNOV, not a bunch of upgrades all done at the same time. At the end of the day what I think we are seeing is likely that the Trinnov has a method of automatically EQ'ing a room in a fashion that doesn't suck like every other auto-tuning processor out there. Compare that to most technician's patience/test equipment/ability and it's no surprise that the Trinnov is getting great reviews. I also think most of the technicians that could tune a room well have moved on, further establishing the Trinnov as a means to "better sound". Until I get the time to actually install it side-by-side in a theater or the screening room, I'll likely not know for sure. In the meantime I await the next review touting the Trinnov's ability to create sound so perfect that you can smell the actor's body odor.  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 11-29-2019 07:36 PM                     I'd the opportunity to listen to one about a month ago. It was my first conscious experience of one of those units. The theater recently had been upgraded, so the whole A and B chain was new, no way to do an A/B test. From what I could see... or rather hear, it's a decent unit. The sound in the theater was pretty good, but not better than what you'd expect from a well-tuned room using a CP750 or AP20/AP25. And to be honest, that's about as good as it gets with 5.1 or 7.1 sound, most of the rest is somewhere in your head... Some people may expect wonders from their sound processor, but I'd say a sound processor is what it is... if it doesn't do any object-based sound, it's essentially nothing more than a switching matrix, D/A pre-amp with built-in equalizer. The problem I have with those units is the price. They don't offer any more magic than the proven solutions from Dolby, Datasat Digital, QSC and they aren't really a much cheaper solution. So, I've got a little bit of a hard time to give them a good place. quote: Brad Miller In the meantime I await the next review touting the Trinnov's ability to create sound so perfect that you can smell the actor's body odor. Can I license this remark for the next time I listen to some audiophile's ground-unicorn-horn-sprinkled audio setup?  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 11-29-2019 09:29 PM                     Well, what is factually known about the Trinnov way of tuning? The AP20 has Dirac/Dirac 2, but that is optional. You may use traditional tuning, or Dirac (and even switch between the two per format, so, have one format with Dirac, and one without, which makes A/B easy). - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Khushwant Singh Film Handler Posts: 27 From: New Delhi , India Registered: May 2018 posted 11-29-2019 11:20 PM                     The is installation is done is a new multiplex having two Auditorium. We are using Christie 2K Projector with IMS3000 (Vanilla) and Trinnov processor in one auditorium and in the other we are having IMS3000 with ATMOS configuration. The speakers are KRIX from Australia.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-30-2019 12:20 AM                        quote: Brad Miller For me to take someone's review seriously, I want to know what was in there before (speakers and everything included) vs. what is in there once the Trinnov was installed. The whole point of reviewing the Trinnov is to review THE TRINNOV, not a bunch of upgrades all done at the same time. I guess I'm qualified to comment on it then, because we installed the Trinnov, but 100% of our other equipment is un-changed. Our other equipment (Stage and surround speakers, and amps) is from QSC. I hear an improvement. Whether it's real or "the power of suggestion" is up for speculation but it sounds better to me. Quite a bit better in some areas.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 11-30-2019 12:53 AM                     Thanks Mike. That's a much more useful review. The only thing that leaves open is if your prior B-chain wasn't as good as it could have been, or the Trinnov is simply a better sounding unit. Khushwant, that doesn't surprise me. Dolby may hate me for saying this, but I've never found the CP850's auto-tuning to be worth a flip. It just doesn't sound good. The only Atmos room I liked the sound in I later found out was because unnamed techs went in behind Dolby, flattened the CP850 and tuned by hand within a QSYS using a D2. I may be paraphrasing, but to quote Scott Norwood from many years ago, "I would rather watch a movie in good mono than bad stereo". For that reason I couldn't give a flip about the ceiling speakers and object-based surrounds if the overall quality doesn't sound as good. I really will get a Trinnov at some point and do a proper on the fly A/B comparison via toggle switch and setup blind listening tests to keep things as fair as possible, but it will be 100% under my setup so there can be no shenanigans with the comparison. I went out of my way to ensure the SRD/DTS/SDDS is truly setup absolutely fair in my screening room. When I do blind listening tests to visitors it's always hilarious when a listener is so positive they have identified what they are listening to as one format, but it's actually another.  |  IP: Logged Mike Babb Master Film Handler Posts: 250 From: Norwich UK Registered: Jul 2002 posted 11-30-2019 05:32 AM                        Greetings all...I will post more later but regarding Khushwant's post, I think I can clarify. I think he is saying (and it was said in the room with me) the sound in the room precisely follows the action on the screen,and to the 4 surround channels, panning, dialogue and special effect placement. If it's located somewhere specific in the mix, the calibration accurately places it there. I think I will find a lot of agreement on F-T that a good 5.1 or 7.1 mix can be very immersive and impressive.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-30-2019 08:53 AM                     What the Ovation can do that most conventional sound processors can't is get the time/phase alignment done right whereas conventional sound processors don't give you those tools. You may be able to do some basic time alignment between the section of the speaker but have zero tools for phase. QSYS and like DSPs can give you those tools (e.g. an all pass filter) and if you have the right analysis equipment (e.g. SMAART) you can get things like time and phase into better alignment. With respect to the Auto Tune of Dolby versus hand tuned...I have some agreement with you there. Now they way I was taught was to "pre-tune" it so that you have removed any if the really rough or dramatically out of level areas. I have a site where there is both auto-tune and hand-tuned. It has an IMS3000 and what comes over the Atmos Connect line (AES67) is auto-tuned. What comes down the normal AES 1-6 is not. So for 5.1/7.1 you can A/B my hand tuned to the auto-tuned audio. I find my hand-tuned to be less harsh on the high-end and dialog to be a bit less metallic sounding. It sounds good both ways but I prefer the hand-tuned. I just wonder how well one is going to consistently tune some 50 or so speakers. I only tuned (by hand) the stage channels, subwoofers and the traditional surround arrays. Let's not forget what analyzer and microphones you use wil factor in. One thing the D2 has over most other is that each mic is individually calibrated and that the analyzer will normalize all mics to mic-1 so no mic gets an exaggerated contribution to the overall response.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-30-2019 06:58 PM                     Mike's previous processor was a CP-650.  |  IP: Logged Mike Babb Master Film Handler Posts: 250 From: Norwich UK Registered: Jul 2002 posted 11-30-2019 07:23 PM                        Me again after a 12 hour sleep (Delhi to Melbourne yesterday).... Excuse me if any of this gets into seeming like a sale pitch but remember before Trinnov I have installed hundreds of other brands, and B chained many more than that. I started working as a day rate engineer assisting in demos and because I really believe in the technology and results, I went to half-time, then 3/4 time, now full time technical and sale manager over a period of 4 years. The Ovation works on two levels in my opinion. One is that in a basic setup it streamlines the setup of a 7.1 or 5.1 room, bi amp for example. I did a video of me calibrating a room in our office that runs less than 8 minutes and yields a really good result in that time. We don't really call it auto-eq because of the historical results of that sort of thing, but indeed it is a step by step process that if you follow it, you will get the same good results. The second level is it has sophisticated analysis and graphs of the room for people that want to use that, and their ears, to take it to the next level. This kind of thing takes time and experience but given that, it does make it easy. The information includes room response, direct response (very valuable), phase response, and impulse response, viewable by channel, or by microphone. The system we did with Khushwant has 3 way speakers at the screen, and each of the 4 surround zones is bi-amp with the array being the "HF" and a subwoofer being the "LF" so it delivers down to about 20hz. All time aligned, the experience is very immersive. Khushwant, Pete Naples, Larry Zuverink, Sam Chavez, Geoff Halls and others on F-T can comment if they like to more credibly back up my arguably biased words.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-01-2019 09:07 AM                     Where is the video?  |  IP: Logged Mike Babb Master Film Handler Posts: 250 From: Norwich UK Registered: Jul 2002 posted 12-01-2019 11:49 AM                        Steve, PM me if you want a preview. It will be finished with a voiceover eventually, released on youtube, but I don't mind sharing with a few people who probably don't need the explanation of what they are watching.  |  IP: Logged

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