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Topic: Avatar 2009 (plus lots of off-topic, non-review junk)

Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 12-17-2009 05:17 PM

It is very interesting to read about people who had negative opinion about AVATAR without seeing the film would agree with Carl Kozlowski's comments despite favorable reviews by a majority of film critics including Rojer Ebert and proudly boast they will not see the movie only because Kozlowsky said it was not good.

I must admit I was not too trilled about the film after I had learned it was going to be partially animated and the the very lame early trailers I saw but I now can hardly wait to see it after reading all of the positive reviews and the many favorable comments posted here.

-Claude

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Joe Tommassello
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 547
From: Coatesville, PA, USA
Registered: Jan 2008

posted 12-17-2009 05:39 PM

I do plan to see the movie and decide for myself. I have always found Cameron films very stylish visually but his dialog frequently sways into b-movie drivel...the kind of chatter you hear in bad 80s slasher or teen sex movies. A couple of weeks ago I watched the first Terminator film and it's got it's share of awkward dialog and performances. (The complete lack of chemistry between Michael Biehn and Linda Hamilton didn't help.) The writer of the "Avatar" review reminds us how derivative Cameron's work is too. After seeing "Titanic" I was compelled to see "A Night To Remember" and was shocked how Cameron simply recreated scenes for his own film - some of them word-for-word and similarly composed. I haven't seen the Fox "Titanic" film from the 50s so I don't know if he "borrowed" from that.

I think we all tend to forgive and/or forget this where Cameron is concerned because he always blows us away with his visuals. I didn't expect to like Star Trek earlier this year and regardless of how I feel about plot choices they made the film was a great action movie and I appreciated it for that. I hope the political-correctness of Avatar won't grate on my brain while I am trying to enjoy the experience.

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Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 12-17-2009 06:31 PM

Joe,

There is a German version of TITANIC that was produced in 1943 during the height of World War 2 and for many years was unfinished. It was eventually completed but the unedited version was censored by the German high command. The film was eventually restored and released by Kino on VHS tape several years ago. It aired on TCM almost two weeks ago and I recorded it on my DVR and watched the the first half hour of it. It was odd watching a German film produced during the war about the disaster that had occurred in 1912 about the sinking of the Titanic, the pride of Great Britain at the same time Germany was at war with that country. James Cameron saw the film and I understood borrowed some story elements when he filmed his version. I had learned at least two scenes from the German version was used in the 1958 British version , A NIGHT TO REMEMBER.

-Claude

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Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 12-17-2009 07:32 PM

By now I have seen about 45minutes of footage from this film. I honestly can't understand people that say this movie is a 10/10, but then again, Transformers 1 and 2 did kazillion $$$$ each and ....

Part of the "problem", I think, is that a lot of people seem super-happy with the visuals/music and thus allow a little forgiveness with the (cheese?) story/cliché characters etc. Also, they can step over the uncanny valley and they buy the blue-elfs as "ok" rather than weird animated stuff.

For some other people, like me, many CGI parts take me right out of whatever story there might be into another animated film hidden in there.

We can all tolerate a few minutes of (bad) CGI-Spiderman or CGI-Batman or CGI-lord of the rings as long as the rest of the film looks "real" and doesn't step too much outside the story. But when >50% of the film is that way, you either "buy it" or you don't.

Some people seem perfectly fine with it. I envy them and understand they give this film a 7-9.5 out of 10 rating.

I like Cameron in general (although indeed he is a "hack" that "borrows" EXTENSIVELY and throws tons of $$$$ waaayyyy-over budget $$$ and over-schedule into his films) and I like this type of Sci-fi films as well, but from all the footage I saw it's clear to me I'm not able to buy the suspension of disbelief needed to fully enjoy this film. For me, it will pbbly be anywhere from a 6 to an 8 out of 10. Maybe it will reach a 9 if indeed the other 100 minutes I haven't seen are "perfect". But never a 10/10 for sure.

Of course geeks and fans were the first in line to watch the film. So early reviews are pbbly possitive-biased. Also, I don't think the film will suck-big-time but rather be moderately-good to very good.

But NOT super-duper-ultra-dutter-maxi-puter-supra awesomely amazing like a lot of fanboys seem to be SHOUTING out everywhere. Me don't thinks. We'll see soon.

At this point the film was a 8.4 in imdb and 82% in rottentomatoes, but, as I said, fans-waiting-in-line are the first to speak up, so it's pbbly a little possitive-biased. The "plain real" public bulk pbbly not voting until monday or so after the film really opens wide etc. Most (but not all) reviews from professional critics though are certainly possitive. For most people this film certainly does NOT stink, so that's a good sign. Looking forward to the full (2D, 35mm in my case) experience soon.

PD: Anybody noticed the REALLY bad ratings of opening avatar-competitor "Did you hear about the Morgans?" OMG

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Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 12-17-2009 08:08 PM

Julio

I have not seen AVATAR yet and there is a possibility I also might not like it and wind up agreeing with you after I see it Enjoying a film or not is only based on our personal opinion. Just because you did not enjoy the film does not give you the right to even question the tastes of others who had enjoyed the film. To cite a personal example , I did not enjoy the first STAR WARS movie but eventually became very fond of the film. Although everyone I knew raved about the first MATRIX film, I did not enjoy it but eventually got to like that one too. When THE SOUND OF MUSIC was released, almost all of the critics hated it but it is film classic today.

-Claude

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Jon P. Inghram
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 124
From: Wichita, KS USA
Registered: Jan 2007

posted 12-17-2009 08:26 PM

I had to leave when they called the stuff they're mining "Unobtainium." James Cameron should know better than to put references to better films (in this case, The Core) in his movies. [Big Grin]

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-17-2009 08:41 PM

quote: Jon P. Inghram
Unobtainium.

I thought that was stupid too. A name like that belongs in a Shrek movie or a Looney Tune, not a serious sci-fi movie.

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Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 12-17-2009 08:58 PM

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
Just because you did not enjoy the film does not give you the right to even question the tastes of others who had enjoyed the film.

Oh, I do respect how others rate a film, Claude, as quoting myself above

quote: Julio Roberto
I envy them and understand they give this film a 7-9.5 out of 10 rating

My problem is NOT with people giving this film a 9.5 out of 10 or even a 10 out of 10. My problem is with people giving this film an 11 out of 10. With people that say this film is the VERY VERY VERY greatest film ever-ever-ever without anything ever ever even remotely possibly close to its shoes.

That's the people which opinion I don't respect. That's all. And with this movie, there are quite a few of them. Not sure why. This movie has cliche characters, cliche dialog (You are not in Kansas anymore ... really? I thought I was in Dusseldof, but whatever), cliche names for minerals [Wink]

, cliche dragons, cliche T-rexs, blue elfs, cliche ewoks-vs-empire fights, cliche etc, OBVIOUS cgi (at times) pretending to be real (Matrix etc had it too, but does it qualify as a "perfect film"?), etc, etc, etc, etc.

An 11 out of 10? Really?

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Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 12-17-2009 09:01 PM

It is still their opinion and they are entitled to it.

-Claude

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Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 12-17-2009 09:07 PM

Yeah, well.

I guess we all have different opinions of what "perfection" is. [beer]

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Dennis Benjamin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1445
From: Denton, MD
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 12-17-2009 09:17 PM

quote: Julio Roberto
My problem is NOT with people giving this film a 9.5 out of 10 or even a 10 out of 10. My problem is with people giving this film an 11 out of 10. With people that say this film is the VERY VERY VERY greatest film ever-ever-ever without anything ever ever even remotely possibly close to its shoes.

James Cameron is not my favorite director.

This is not my favorite movie.

I gave the film an 11 out of 10 because, well, it deserves it. It has great visuals, great action, and beautiful scenery.

We are all entitled to our opinions *exactly*.

With all the trash that I have had to deal with for the past few years, this is by far one of the best films that have been released in a while.

I am not happy at all with the flat scope B.S. that was talked about on another thread. But the movie was BETTER than I thought it would be.

[Wink]

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Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 12-17-2009 09:21 PM

Dennis

I wasn't pointing to your 11-out-of-10 rating specifically, of course [Razz]

As I said. No problems with people thinking this film is "perfect" for them.

But "over perfect" in the history of cinema? Really a flawless film with no "defects" whatsoever to warrant an unobtanium 11-out-of-10 rating? Really so perfect?

Oh well. If you insist, then I guess we just have either different rating systems or different conceptions of the universe. [beer]

People are entitled to their opinions. Other people are entitled to not liking/respecting/sharing them. I respect an 10 out of 10 for this film, but don't share it. I don't respect an 11 out of 10, much less share it. Although I still haven't watched the whole film, but enough to know it's not "perfect" much less "over perfect".

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 12-17-2009 09:23 PM

The best movie - no, best film - of 2002 was "Kung Pow: Enter the Fist". I poo-poo anyone who says otherwise. [Razz]

I'm looking forward to seeing Avatar. [Smile]

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Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 12-17-2009 09:28 PM

Kung Pow was the pits. It deserved the 13 out of 10 I gave it [Wink]

It didn't play well dubbed ... ... ... to Spanish, though [Wink]

Otherwise it would've gotten a 14 out of 10. [Big Grin]

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 12-17-2009 10:27 PM

quote: Caleb Johnstone-Cowan
The plot is very mainstream, pretty much Dances With Wolves with a bit of Fern Gully in there...

Oh very true (since Fox also release FG back in 1994...just miss Robin Williams though flying around..) with the above comments.

For once, I sat through the movie not even noticing that I was watching this movie with glasses - only during the live action sequences where in 3D can never be good for it still seems "layered" or should say "multiplane" photography.

NOW, you head to the other side of the spectrum in this movie and you totally forget that you're wearing glasses.. The best 3D that I've ever seen ... even if it was "RealDumb"

p.s. - wonder how this film will look in TECH 3D ....

True, won't beat "Titanic" by a long shot (don't think nothing will ever beat that movie even though "D.K." almost did last year..), but still very entertaining and the 162minutes did disappear quite reasonably.

Definitely a DVD/BR keeper for me when it hits home video..

-Monte

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