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Topic: 'X-Men Origins: Wolverine' Leaked Online

Janusz Antkiewicz
Film Handler

Posts: 40
From: Wroclaw, Dolny Slask, Poland
Registered: Jan 2009

posted 04-13-2009 01:09 PM

quote:
Bobby Henderson

If you have an employee who is directly undermining your business and even going so far to publicly say in a published work how easy it is to do by describing the act as like "walking out into the rain," heh heh, simply put, you fire his ass.

Still I wouldn'y get too excited about the whole affair: there obviously are people at Fox who take a great deal of money just to make sure such cases are "spinned" to their advantage. For me it was Friedman who made first attempt at taking this in stride, apparently without anybody's permission.

Let's not forget the culprits(s): those who made the copy of the workprint and put it in the Net. They are to blame; not the guy who wrote the review because he actually MIGHT NOT HAVE SEEN the movie. Everyone knows how easy it is to make an opinion about a movie without seeing it.

PS.
Raise your hands those of you who haven't got a peek at the Wolverine workprint. I did [evil]

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-13-2009 01:55 PM

quote: Janusz Antkiewicz
Let's not forget the culprits(s): those who made the copy of the workprint and put it in the Net. They are to blame; not the guy who wrote the review because he actually MIGHT NOT HAVE SEEN the movie.

Both parties have blame to share. I agree, the person(s) who leaked the work print are the primary culprits. An investigation is underway to find who committed the crime. Nevertheless, anyone watching the Wolverine work print is participating in the act of piracy as well. It is a crime. Sure, the risk of getting caught and prosecuted is very low to non-existent, but the lack of risk doesn't make the act of using pirated media acceptable.

Regarding Friedman, my understanding of the incident is that he did watch the work print and went as far to say that downloading the illegal copy was as easy as taking a walk in the rain.

I also wonder if there is more to Friedman's dismissal than just the Wolverine story -that perhaps the issue may be bigger than Friedman alone. Fox News is a very successful cable network, but rumors suggest its camp does not get along with some of the other media companies under the News Corp. umbrella. Maybe the review of the leaked Wolverine movie was a "shot across the bow" example of internal corporate politics. The Fox News guys know they're making News Corp. a bunch of money and want a greater level of respect for that.

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Janusz Antkiewicz
Film Handler

Posts: 40
From: Wroclaw, Dolny Slask, Poland
Registered: Jan 2009

posted 04-13-2009 02:29 PM

Seems like we disagree right from the beginning: I have nothing against downloading and widespreading (via Internet) media content (movies, music).

(I can only imagine how angry you must be now. But before casting some insulting phrases [Wink]

take your time and search the web - you may come across a great deal of thought-provoking ideas).

So for me this whole Wolverine affair is yet another way to rise interest about the movie.

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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 04-13-2009 03:13 PM

Pretty simple: Downloading reduces DVD sales + studios make money off DVD sales = Studios make less money because of illegal downloading; money they could be spending to make other movies.

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Janusz Antkiewicz
Film Handler

Posts: 40
From: Wroclaw, Dolny Slask, Poland
Registered: Jan 2009

posted 04-13-2009 03:25 PM

There's virtually no proof to the statement that the more downloads, the fewer DVDs sold. This thing has been reiterated many a times without providing any data (I cannot even imagine how would they look like-there are far too many assumptions to be made).

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-13-2009 03:49 PM

quote: Janusz Antkiewicz
There's virtually no proof to the statement that the more downloads, the fewer DVDs sold.

Totally beside the point. If I own something, which I created with the intent to present for income, and you download and watch it without paying me, you are not only stealing from me, but applying a rationale that I neither intend nor authorize.

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Janusz Antkiewicz
Film Handler

Posts: 40
From: Wroclaw, Dolny Slask, Poland
Registered: Jan 2009

posted 04-13-2009 03:57 PM

There is a point, indeed.
Downloading something doesn't mean that someone is not going to buy DVD (or music CD, or a cinema ticket and so on). Every estimation of money that is supposedly lost to the entertainment industry makes this (too far-fetched for me) assumption.

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Galen Murphy-Fahlgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 405
From: Canton, MI, USA
Registered: Oct 2007

posted 04-13-2009 05:47 PM

It doesn't actually matter if they buy the DVD afterward, they have still stolen the content, just like if you sneak into a theater, and later buy a ticket for the same movie. Viewing the content is a crime under international copyright law, as is propagating the stolen content.

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Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-13-2009 06:24 PM

Thought-provoking ideas don't change the law. And breaking the law is simply putting yourself at risk... a risk that isn't worth it just to watch a rough cut of a movie. I might agree that just seeing something online isn't so bad, but helping to spread it around? You've gone way outside of my comfort zone.

Not to be too much of a good-two-shoes, but this reminds me that I wouldn't even know where to begin looking for pirated movies online. It's like if someone tried to force me to buy heroin. I don't even know where to start!

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-13-2009 09:38 PM

Last time I did a search, it was not possible to download heroin from the internet.

Movies on the net however are a dime a dozen. Google and there you go. It takes about .00043 seconds.

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Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-13-2009 09:54 PM

I just want to clarify something about how it's not so bad if I just see something online, stopping short of helping to distribute it. Example: YouTube. I'm sure there's tons of stuff on there without proper coppyright authorization. But I'm not going to kick myself every time I happen to see the stuff there. I'm not going to admit that I'm a "thief" because I found something on YouTube. But some of the posts in this thread would indicate that I'm a criminal.

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Anslem Rayburn
Master Film Handler

Posts: 476
From: Yuma, AZ, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 04-13-2009 11:12 PM

quote: Janusz Antkiewicz
There is a point, indeed.
Downloading something doesn't mean that someone is not going to buy DVD (or music CD, or a cinema ticket and so on). Every estimation of money that is supposedly lost to the entertainment industry makes this (too far-fetched for me) assumption.

It doesn't matter if it doesn't cost the industry a single penny. Taking something that doesn't belong to you is theft. Rationalize it however you like, but if you are knowingly viewing content you are not authorized by rightful owner to view, you are stealing it.

How would you even attempt to prove the impact of downloads on DVD or ticket sales? Common sense tells you that if someone has already watched a movie, they are less likely to pay to watch it again. If they have downloaded a DVD quality file, they are less likely to purchase a DVD.

One individual I know has a lot of pirated DVDs, mostly from screen rips. He doesn't buy duplicate titles via official DVD releases, I assure you.

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Janusz Antkiewicz
Film Handler

Posts: 40
From: Wroclaw, Dolny Slask, Poland
Registered: Jan 2009

posted 04-14-2009 03:57 AM

Anslem,
don't you think that some things (e.g. consumers' behaviour connected with the products they do/don't buy) aren't ruled by common sense? If your friend downloads stuff without buying it afterwards doesn't mean that the majority of consumers do it the same way.

I think that the economists nowadays tend to incline to the opinion that describing economy with any digestible equations is
impossible since you can hardly predict anything about it. Seems like there are too many factors (variables?) included in the process to say anything for sure.

From your posts above it turns out I'm a thief [Wink]

But are you all sure you don't have little sins on your side? [evil]

Is every single programme on your hard drives legally obtained? What about taxes-are there any loopholes you use from time to time?

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Anslem Rayburn
Master Film Handler

Posts: 476
From: Yuma, AZ, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 04-14-2009 05:40 AM

quote:
From your posts above it turns out I'm a thief [Wink] But are you all sure you don't have little sins on your side? [evil] Is every single programme on your hard drives legally obtained? What about taxes-are there any loopholes you use from time to time?

I have downloaded and viewed pirate copies, I'm not claiming innocence. And guess what, I didn't view them for pay after that. It has been at least 6 years since I checked that avenue out, and I still haven't purchased or rented the titles I viewed.

I am not rich enough to exploit tax loopholes, so that one's off base.

Every thing on my hard drive currently is legal, just so you know. I have a music subscription service for my tunes, and I only view movies and tv shows on HULU now.

Other than that I watch on DVD and via satellite, so I'm pretty safe.

Your argument about others being guilty doesn't change the fact that stealing is stealing. And if you knowingly obtain and view material you are not licensed to view, then you ARE a thief.

I have first hand knowledge of people with pirated movies that do not buy them legally after obtaining them illegally. Do you honestly know anyone that downloads DVD quality bootlegs and then buys them on DVD anyway?

And when it comes to the economics of an industry that I have a personal stake in, I would rather err on the side of caution than pretend it has no impact.

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Janusz Antkiewicz
Film Handler

Posts: 40
From: Wroclaw, Dolny Slask, Poland
Registered: Jan 2009

posted 04-14-2009 06:31 AM

Anslem,
actually only the first paragraph of my last post concerned your previous statements-that's why I left 2 lines blank. Sorry if I caused any misunderstanding.
Surely I'm not the one to point out your wrong-doings/sins/whatever [Smile]

.
It's very laudable you abide by law. Try spicing your life a bit and do something against it (kidding! [Big Grin]

)

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