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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Ground Level   » 'X-Men Origins: Wolverine' Leaked Online (Page 5)

 
This topic comprises 9 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9   
Author Topic: 'X-Men Origins: Wolverine' Leaked Online
Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 04-14-2009 09:10 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Janusz Antkiewicz
Doesn't a certain action become a true civil disobedience only after we know the overall outcome (and I don't mean a win/lose situation)?
Freeloading movies, music (or even porn) has NOTHING to do with civil rights struggles. Any suggestion that this discussion equates to that is laugh out loud hilariously ridiculous. It's smearing shit in one's hair stupid.

quote: Janusz Antkiewicz
Sure, it doesn't change the obvious (simple definiton: sb who stole sth = a thief) but it takes away the power from the statement "You're a thief!" It just doesn't sound so pejorative anymore.
Wrong. The crime that took place doesn't change. As I said earlier, the background of those casting the accusations makes no difference if the person being accused actually perpetrated the crime. The criminal act still took place. Someone else's actions doesn't erase that criminal act. Therefore you have no leg to stand on with this screwy argument. If you steal you are a thief. It doesn't matter how awful the person casting the accusation may be. If you are guilty of the crime you are still guilty regardless.

The only area where you can have room to argue is if the evidence against you is only circumstantial, and thus allows "character" of witnesses involved to have a greater bearing on the outcome of the argument. If the FBI storms my house and finds a bunch of pirated stuff on hard discs it won't matter what kind of checkered past the accusers have. It won't be brought up in court. I'll just have a fast track to prison.

quote:
BTW, you can call me hypocrite :wink: for I suit your definition perfectly
Wrong. You're advocating piracy and implying you may be taking part in the practice of it. That isn't hypocrisy. Still, the statement is advocacy of a criminal activity.

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Janusz Antkiewicz
Film Handler

Posts: 40
From: Wroclaw, Dolny Slask, Poland
Registered: Jan 2009

- posted 04-15-2009 02:31 AM      Profile for Janusz Antkiewicz   Email Janusz Antkiewicz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can see the discussion came to a point where emotional statement (opinions) prevail over sound arguments. I would have to repeat myself all the time and I don't like it.

What I don't like is the implication that I download stuff from the Internet- you cannot say that for sure. For the sake of discussion I may even admit that-then you have only my statment that still doesn't proof anything.

Thanks for the discussion [Smile]

Wishing you all good luck [thumbsup]

Janusz

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Kurt Zupin
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 989
From: Maricopa, Arizona
Registered: Oct 2004

- posted 04-15-2009 02:34 AM      Profile for Kurt Zupin   Email Kurt Zupin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Janusz, if you come on here and state that you are proud that you illegally downloaded a unfinished unreleased copy of something and even if you put [evil] next to it every time (The devil guy would say to me that you know what your doing is wrong, but you don't care) you still did something illegal. If you want to admit it or not is beside the point, you've done nothing in your first 30 or so post on here to make anyone take anything you have to say in the future seriously.

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Janusz Antkiewicz
Film Handler

Posts: 40
From: Wroclaw, Dolny Slask, Poland
Registered: Jan 2009

- posted 04-15-2009 02:50 AM      Profile for Janusz Antkiewicz   Email Janusz Antkiewicz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Kurt Zupin
you've done nothing in your first 30 or so post on here to make anyone take anything you have to say in the future seriously.
Losing credibility in 30 posts, that's a feat, wouldn't you say? [Wink] If you (and again I'm not refering to you Kurt) didn't want a discussion why posting a reply?

quote: Kurt Zupin
that you are proud that you illegally downloaded a unfinished unreleased copy
What makes you think so? Confession to something is not the same as being proud of it.

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Kurt Zupin
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 989
From: Maricopa, Arizona
Registered: Oct 2004

- posted 04-15-2009 04:55 AM      Profile for Kurt Zupin   Email Kurt Zupin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Janusz Antkiewicz
What makes you think so? Confession to something is not the same as being proud of it.
Because if you weren't proud of it, you would sit here and post after post after post after post after post after post and try and defend it, and please don't come back with a reply stating your just trying to have a "discussion" because that is not what this anymore. Hasn't been for 20+ posts. Now its you trying to save face when every time you come up with something else, you get two or three people who can disprove what you say.

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

- posted 04-15-2009 07:36 AM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Troll.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

- posted 04-15-2009 09:16 AM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark J. Marshall
Troll.
Finally someone says it.

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Janusz Antkiewicz
Film Handler

Posts: 40
From: Wroclaw, Dolny Slask, Poland
Registered: Jan 2009

- posted 04-15-2009 11:13 AM      Profile for Janusz Antkiewicz   Email Janusz Antkiewicz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark J. Marshall
Troll.
There are certain words and phrases we use when a we don't want to discuss. For instance, we say "You're just a kid. How can you possibly know?" to our children since we are tired of them challenging our ideas; "I don't have time for this." is yet another example.
It's pretty much the same with Internet fora: there are various ways of discrediting your oponent- you can label him "a troll" for instance. That surely ends the discussion but does it solve the issue?

There's a lesson to be learnt: if you feel strongly about something, use arguments especially when you know there are so many of them. And don't get angry! [Wink] It doesn't help either.

Astonished as I was when first I looked at the number of posts some of you have, I keep reminding myself that quantity is no quality. So save the posts consisting of single word/emoticon or blank for some less serious matters.

PS. Edited to correct grammar mistake: sure it's "a lesson" and not "an lesson". Thanks for pointing that out guys [beer]

[ 04-16-2009, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Janusz Antkiewicz ]

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

- posted 04-15-2009 03:43 PM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Janusz Antkiewicz
I can see the discussion came to a point where emotional statement (opinions) prevail over sound arguments.
I'd say it was more that it came to a point where you made invalid statements and got responded to on both an emotional AND logical/argumentative way.

For instance, your stating that movie downloads being "civil disobedience" was emotionally a bad connotation because of the number of people killed from civil disobedience and it was also a bad statement logically in the sense that the term (by definition) doesn't apply to our discussion on movie downloads.

So, maybe you'll call this me being too emotional, but until you understand the meaning of words and how they actually apply to things, no reasonable/logical discussion can occur.

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Janusz Antkiewicz
Film Handler

Posts: 40
From: Wroclaw, Dolny Slask, Poland
Registered: Jan 2009

- posted 04-15-2009 05:07 PM      Profile for Janusz Antkiewicz   Email Janusz Antkiewicz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For an instant I thought that I should give up the discussion (and those who are not convinced that it's indeed a discussion, do take some time and visit discussion and find Karl Popper debate)
, after being outwardly called a thief with no proof(even though a certain person on the 1st page of this thread wrote:
quote: Julio Roberto
I admit having watched it a couple of days ago.
Nobody seemed to notice. Fair enough.
Then I'm also a troll. Whatever.

I'd like to bring to your attention this civil disobedience In the definition certain expression seems to be vital: the active refusal to obey certain laws and in the next paragraph these laws are referred to as unfair laws. Now, let's concentrate what they may be. Is denying people freedom of speech an example of an unfair law? I'd say it is. Is denying people (via legal regultions) knowledge about present developments in various fields an unfair law? (Are movies/music only for entertainment or can they play much more vital role in certain communities/countries/nations?) Again I'd say it is.
Can you imagine a situation where an illegally downloaded movie actually saved somebody's life? Give it a try.
In the light of all this can online filesharing in certain cases be actually called a civil disobedience, according to the definition above?

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 04-15-2009 06:57 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Janusz Antkiewicz
(Are movies/music only for entertainment or can they play much more vital role in certain communities/countries/nations?) Again I'd say it is.
Can you imagine a situation where an illegally downloaded movie actually saved somebody's life?
Now you're really reaching. Like everyone keeps repeating (and you keep ignoring),

IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE if a life is saved, ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL meaning "AGAINST THE LAW" meaning it's a CRIME and if you do it, you are a THIEF.

I don't recall anyone on here directly calling you a thief, by the way. They just said you appear to be one due to some of the things you've posted. Given what you've said here, if I was a betting man I would tend to bet that you probably do have a hard drive containing at least some unlicensed content, but I'm not about to accuse you of it. This isn't a court of law, after all.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

- posted 04-15-2009 09:28 PM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Janusz Antkiewicz
I'd like to bring to your attention this civil disobedience In the definition certain expression seems to be vital: the active refusal to obey certain laws and in the next paragraph these laws are referred to as unfair laws.
1) wikipedia is not a dictionary

2) wikipedia can be edited by anyone, including people who don't have a clue as to what the subject is. As such, it is not a source one can cite.

3) Practically every dictionary I've looked at has civil disobedience including the act being used to invoke change and the ones that don't specify it as such add a mention to it in footnotes or mention that the action is done as a part of a protest. Movie downloads fail to meet these.

quote: Janusz Antkiewicz
Is denying people freedom of speech an example of an unfair law? I'd say it is.
Is this a non sequitur? I'd say it is. Of course, I'm all for free speech. But since downloading movies is not an act of free speech, any discussion on it is moot.

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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000

- posted 04-16-2009 01:02 AM      Profile for Chad Souder   Email Chad Souder   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Janusz Antkiewicz
Downloading something doesn't mean that someone is not going to buy DVD (or music CD, or a cinema ticket and so on). Every estimation of money that is supposedly lost to the entertainment industry makes this (too far-fetched for me) assumption.
I've been gone for a couple days, so please allow me to back up a bit. So are you saying that you believe illegal downloads do not hurt, but likely help, legal sales of movies both in cinema and at home? Are you saying that after illegally downloading a movie, that person is more likely to either go buy a ticket or buy the same movie on DVD? That assumption is equally far-fetched for me. Thus far, you've alluded to these devil's advocate stances, but you have not plainly stated you believe them. I am just looking for clarification.

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

- posted 04-16-2009 04:35 AM      Profile for Carl Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Carl Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
stealing is not necessarily stealing. there are different senses of the word. if i steal your shoe you don't have it anymore. if i steal your idea you probably still have it. if i steal your girlfriend you don't have her anymore but the law has nothing to say about it.

the notion of "intellectual" property has been around for, what, 200 years or so? nowhere near as long as that of physical property. and they've always been treated differently under the law.

many seem hung up on a capitalistic justification for ip. i don't feel it's anyone's responsibility to behave in such a way as to enrich others. there's also the argument that ip encourages art and innovation. i'm sure it often does, but it can also be, and often is, a direct hindrance. nor do i think it's anyone's responsibility to promote social goals, though i appreciate those who do, to the extent that we agree on what the "common good" is.

i have no moral problem with people downloading illegally, etc. personally, i have no interest in this movie, and the ones i am interested in i see on film. i could get upset at the fact that downloading de-emphasizes the filmic experience that i value highly, but i'd have to be equally upset at the studios who put out dvds and the "legitimate" home-viewers for the same reason.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 04-16-2009 09:21 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Carl Martin
the notion of "intellectual" property has been around for, what, 200 years or so? nowhere near as long as that of physical property. and they've always been treated differently under the law.
It takes brain power, labor and time to generate "intellectual property," such as a novel, work of art, music, etc. That work is not generated at the snap of a finger. Real tangible money can (and should) be made off such work.

If someone insists that I do my art related job for free, just for the honor of being published or some other similar crap, the person making the request can have the honor of eating a plate of my shit.

Really. All the folks who think writers, artists, musicians, etc. ought to be working for nothing need to live by the same example to see just how impractical it is to follow. The word "hypocrisy" was mentioned earlier in this thread. Well, I'll tell you, anyone who insists that freeloading movies and music is perfectly acceptable is a flat out, full of shit hypocrite if he gets a paycheck for his day job. When the freeloaders start doing their own jobs for free then maybe they can have a leg to stand on with their arguments. Right now they're just shoveling bullshit.

The downloading crowd can keep on doing what they're doing for all I care. Just don't try to convince anyone such as myself that the activity is perfectly acceptable. That sort of pretentiousness is just stupid. Piracy of music, movies and literary work is indeed criminal activity. The practice may be widespread, like tax evasion, but it is still wrong.

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