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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Ground Level   » Patrons 'reel' mad about theater food searches (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Patrons 'reel' mad about theater food searches
Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-21-2010 12:04 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Constitution of the US is misunderstood by more than it is understood.

It does not "give" any rights. It is 100% about RESTRICTING GOVERNMENT. It was created by people that felt they were oppressed with a Monarchy that was too intrusive.

As others have said, it has no application to a private entity. We have laws and acts to deal with those. The laws/acts, since they are government created, must also not infringe upon the Constitution.

Another misconception is that it has to be written into the constitution (or amended) for a "right" to exist. We are created with "certain inalienable rights and AMONG these are". It does NOT state that "and these are." The ones printed are the ones that have been deemed needed to be actually stated. They were never meant to be the entire exclusive set of rights.

Steve

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Randy Stankey
Film God

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From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-21-2010 12:16 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They can search me if they want but they better call the cops first. If the cops don't find anything they'd better get out their check book! A written apology to go along with that might be nice, too.

Yes, the Constitution does only apply to the government but most states have laws that make violating the Constitution a civil offense. So, no, it's not a crime to violate somebody's civil rights but you can sue somebody else for it.

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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Peabody Massachusetts
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 - posted 03-21-2010 11:49 AM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Tom Doyle
"So then the question would be whether she would have claim under invasion of privacy laws, for example, whether the search was not adequately announced," Meyer said. "And to the extent that they're drawing gender classifications, well, that could also be trouble."
I don't see how. No one forced anyone to attend a film at this establishment they have the free choice to turn around and walk out when they noticed others being searched.

It is like driving because you have the choice to not drive the police have more leeway to search vehicles without warrants/permission.

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John T. Hendrickson, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Freehold, NJ, USA
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 - posted 03-21-2010 01:26 PM      Profile for John T. Hendrickson, Jr   Email John T. Hendrickson, Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting point, Sean.

Along the same lines, it could be argued that when that individual turns over the pocketbook, she consents to a search (and in some jurisdictions this has been interpreted that "silence is consent" if no verbal objection is made). Then effectively one would waive their protection from said search.

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Scott D. Neff
Theatre Dork

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From: San Francisco, CA
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 - posted 03-21-2010 03:02 PM      Profile for Scott D. Neff   Author's Homepage   Email Scott D. Neff   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
44oz cup is about 12¢
44oz lid is about 2.5¢
Straw is about 2¢

You need to remember though that bigger companies have better negotiated prices for their concessions. For them it probably does total out to about $0.10 - $0.20 each.

I would still love to see a good analysis of a theatre that has reasonable concessions prices to see if the volume of sales makes up for the lower price. Problem is most small theatres with low prices don't take the time to sit in front of excel and figure that out.

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Don Furr
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From: Sun City, Ca USA
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 - posted 03-21-2010 03:22 PM      Profile for Don Furr   Email Don Furr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Speaking of searches....several years ago Six Flags Over Georgia would search EVERY woman's purse before allowing entry through the gates. No difference between that and searching purses belonging to theatre patrons. Of course Six Flags claimed search was for weapons, not food but that really doesn't matter. A search is a search.

Don

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-21-2010 03:40 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry Randy...name the state that has the Constitutional Rights apply to private situations...I doubt ANY have such a clause as it would be silly in many instances. Do I have a right to free speech in a movie theatre? Not too likely. We won't even get into the second Amendment which clearly has state-by-state laws governing guns.

What a ticket grants the purchaser is a LIMITED LICENSE to see the specific movie at the specified time. If you do not agree with the rules of the establishment, you are free to not patronize it. If they fail to fulfill their end of the license (show you the movie at the specified time, you are also free to demand your money back...not just get a readmit. It would be a breach of contract.

What you may be confusing as "rights" are "Acts" like the ADA and Title 9 stuff (non-discrimination). These are mere laws that the Federal government imposes on all jurisdictions....they are also subject to Constitutional revue and nullification if they are brought to the Supreme Court and found to, in some way, be unconstitutional.

When it comes to cars...it is a sticky one...thus far, it has been ruled that your car (I don't know about mobile homes or the cab portion of a mobile home) does not have the same constitutional protections as your home. The 4th amendment specifically states "home." It does not mention a car...which considering there were no cars, it would not. However, it does not mention carriage either. The idea though is that when you are home, you are "safe" and the government must jump through some hoops to gain access to you and your property.

What I think has been a wrong interpretation of the Constitution is that one should have a right to drive. State governments have taken the stance that it is a privilege because it makes their live a lot easier...you don't need to check the constitution on anything once you loose that "right" status. However, it not being a right has shown the abuses the States have done since they know you want/need your license and thus can get the citizenry to do anything they want to keep it. Foolish people will tout that making it a right would allow unsafe people to drive. It is a dumb statement. All that a right really does is GUARANTEE "Due process." That is, before the government may remove your right (to even life) is to let you have your day in court and be judged by your peers. We have a 2nd amendment right to guns and convicted felons tend to loose that right. If we had an expressed right to drive, you would find that about the same number of people would loose that right as those with suspended licenses but you would also find things tied to your license that have nothing to do with how well you drive, would pretty much vanish.

Steve

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Jim Ziegler
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 - posted 03-21-2010 05:29 PM      Profile for Jim Ziegler   Email Jim Ziegler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Sean McKinnon
It is like driving because you have the choice to not drive the police have more leeway to search vehicles without warrants/permission.
That's not entirely the case. Per the 2009 SCOTUS ruling in Arizona v. Gant, "Police may search the passenger compartment of a vehicle incident to a recent occupant’s arrest only if it is reasonable to believe that the arrestee might access the vehicle at the time of the search or that the vehicle contains evidence of the offense of arrest."

A police officer cannot pull someone over for one offense and search their vehicle for evidence of unrelated offenses. If an officer stops and arrests someone for driving on a suspensed license, then it would be unreasonable to conduct a warrentless search for drugs. However, if the officer stopped someone for driving under the influence, than such a search would be reasonable under the ruling.

There is another 4th Amendment exception related to impounded vehicles where police are legally allowed to conduct an inventory search if it is departmental policy to do so. However, procedures for this have to be specific on how and when to impound a vehicle adn do the search. Deviations from those procedures will likely result in any evidence obtained being surpressed.

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Bruce Hansen
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 - posted 03-22-2010 05:42 PM      Profile for Bruce Hansen   Email Bruce Hansen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If someone asked to search me, when entering some place like a theater, I would just say NO. The kid would be stuned, and let me into the theater. If the kid told me to leave, seeing how they already sold me a ticket, wouldn't that be breach of contract?

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Sean McKinnon
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 - posted 03-22-2010 06:07 PM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jim Ziegler
A police officer cannot pull someone over for one offense and search their vehicle for evidence of unrelated offenses. If an officer stops and arrests someone for driving on a suspensed license, then it would be unreasonable to conduct a warrentless search for drugs. However, if the officer stopped someone for driving under the influence, than such a search would be reasonable under the ruling.
Have you ever watched the T.V. show "COPS"? All the police have to say is that the search was for thier safety and that while searching for weapons they happened to find drugs. Unfortunately it happens all the time. I don't think it's right. I have had my car searched and been questioned about the "Gizmo" in the box (My oscilloscope) and why did I need to carry all these tools etc... That was after getting stopped for speeding. I don't think it's right but it happens all the time.

quote: Bruce Hansen
If the kid told me to leave, seeing how they already sold me a ticket, wouldn't that be breach of contract?
No, it would not. Steve said above...

quote: Steve Guttag
What a ticket grants the purchaser is a LIMITED LICENSE to see the specific movie at the specified time. If you do not agree with the rules of the establishment, you are free to not patronize it.
The flip side to that is that if you do not follow the establishments rules they can ask you to leave. With or without refund.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

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From: Forsyth, Montana
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 - posted 03-22-2010 06:22 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bruce Hansen
If someone asked to search me, when entering some place like a theater, I would just say NO. The kid would be stuned, and let me into the theater.
I would think the kid would call security. Seriously, what do most people have to hide? Nothing. Providing the establishment has proper notice (signs) that searching is taking place, anyone who balks at a simple bag search would raise a red flag.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

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From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
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 - posted 03-22-2010 07:29 PM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Sean McKinnon
Have you ever watched the T.V. show "COPS"? All the police have to say is that the search was for thier safety and that while searching for weapons they happened to find drugs. Unfortunately it happens all the time. I don't think it's right. I have had my car searched and been questioned about the "Gizmo" in the box (My oscilloscope) and why did I need to carry all these tools etc... That was after getting stopped for speeding. I don't think it's right but it happens all the time.
You have to remember that just because something happens on the TV show doesn't mean it was legal. I know that a similar show that was on in California before COPS went into syndication had a follow-up on the arrests, where a lot of them were thrown out specifically for the things the cops did that they caught on tape. And when you were pulled over, did the cop ask you to allow him to search your car? Because legally, they can only do a search based on reasonable suspicion or based on what is seen in plain-sight.

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Sean McKinnon
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 - posted 03-22-2010 08:04 PM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh I know Chris I was just saying that even though it isn't right or always legal it still happens a lot in the real world... I have been to court to fight traffic violations and got to see first hand a hearing where evidence (a bag of weed) got tossed because the cops went to a persons house to arrest a third party on an arrest warrant. According to the law the cops can arrest the wanted person but have no legal standing to search anyone else in the house. They went in lookinfg for the wanted person who wasn't there and searched everyone else at the house. Unfortunately that was a rare case where the cop wasn't familiar with the law. I have seen a lot of cops lie (I am sure the majority don't) but a law enforcement officers testimony holds more weight than the average person. If they say I gave them permission to search my car and then changed my mind after they found something who is the judge going to believe?

The trooper asked me if he could search my car and I told him "no, I don't see any reason why you should" so at that point he asked me to step out he detained me in handcuffs and searched anyway. He told me it was for his safety. When he did not find anything he let me go.

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Jim Ziegler
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 - posted 03-22-2010 08:07 PM      Profile for Jim Ziegler   Email Jim Ziegler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Sean McKinnon
Have you ever watched the T.V. show "COPS"? All the police have to say is that the search was for thier safety and that while searching for weapons they happened to find drugs.
Pre Gant there was more leeway to search for officer safety concerns, but only incident to an arrest. Post Gant, the rules are much more strict. BTW, any episodes of COPS you are watching were probably pre-Gant, which was handed down in 2009.

quote: Sean McKinnon
I have had my car searched and been questioned about the "Gizmo" in the box (My oscilloscope) and why did I need to carry all these tools etc... That was after getting stopped for speeding.
You do not have to consent to the search. If they ask, say no.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

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From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-22-2010 10:36 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sean,

If you do not fulfill your part of the license (show the movie in its entirety) because you refused to let someone in or you threw them out, you actually DO need to refund their money. The reason for the removal of the person is immaterial, with respect to the contract/license. Theatres don't get to make their own laws with respect to refunding money though they may WISH to be able to keep the money and just issue a re-admit. Company policy does not trump the law.

Steve

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