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Topic: The Psychology of Showing DVD/BluRay

Jeremy Weigel
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1062
From: Edmond, OK, USA
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 10-27-2010 02:15 PM

I've not done any public showings, but have done a few test runs showing both DVD and BluRay. The screen is about 35" wide. To be honest I can't tell the difference between the BluRay and DCinema, but I definitely can when running DVD.

I'm using a Dell Dimension 8400 3.8Ghz desktop equipped with a LG BluRay drive; Nvidia 9400GT graphics with HDMI HDCP compliant output; using Cyberlink PowerDVD BluRay software. The graphics card picks up the native resolution of the Christie CP2000ZX at 2048x1080.

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Eric Hooper
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 532
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Registered: May 2003

posted 10-27-2010 04:08 PM

quote: Mitchell Dvoskin
To answer the original question...

Film, to many of us, has a different look and feel, for lack of better words, from video. Both can look good, but it is not the same.

Additionally, for many of us so-called "film buffs", the reason we go out to see a classic film in a theatre is to see it the way it was originally shown. It's all part of the total experience.

As to picture quality, it may look acceptable, it is not. We are not talking about 2K-4K D-Cinema, but DVD at ½K or BluRay at 1K. Upconversion always leaves artifacts. Maybe you can't see the difference, but I sure can on a big screen.

For myself, I can think of no circumstance where I would pay money to see a DVD/BluRay in a public venue. These are consumer home formats, and I am quite capable of watching them at home. I would feel cheated.

I agree with every point Mitchell makes here. We have a local movie theatre here that closed but then has now "re-opened" as a movie theatre and live performance theatre. They just show the movies using DVD's, and have the nerve to charge $10-15 bucks for it. Umm, I can do that at home, for way cheaper. I felt totally ripped off. [fu]

And I guess what even makes it worse for this place, is they don't even bother to hide the projector and DVD player. Both are visable in the auditorium. You see the dude push play on the DVD player! It's not like they're projecting from a booth or anything. There's no professionalism to it.

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Ian Parfrey
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1049
From: Imbil Australia 26 deg 27' 42.66" S 152 deg 42' 23.40" E
Registered: Feb 2009

posted 10-27-2010 04:18 PM

The point the complainants were making is that there is no benefit to paying big $$ to watch a "video".

We are selling what is supposed to be an "experience", and when we use nothing more that what the patron uses at home to sell that experience, then they have every right to feel ripped off.

Its like paying to be driven around an F1 race track in a "racing car" only to find out it's Vectra.

The patron WILL pay to see what they can NOT see at home. When we start using DVD as our medium of exhibition then we should not expect people to come out and visit our theatres when there is no value-added reason to.

To paraphrase - Why would I pay more than what a dvd s worth to sit in a big room watching a dvd?

If I was one of the patrons attending the show and a dvd was, plainly or otherwise used, then I would be spitting chips.

This is, and soon will be a very major issue we all have to deal with. Either we pull our fingers out of our arses and realise that we have to offer 'above and beyond' what the punter can get at home or we shut up shop and open a video store.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 10-27-2010 05:04 PM

With a DCinema projector...the ability to "get away" with a BluRay will be easier than with a DVD...which, unless you are really blind or stupid does not look anything like a film presentation...there simply is no detail there and the dynamic range is really crushed.

I like the phrase "Psychology" because that is correct. As others have pointed out...one does not like to feel that what they are paying a premium for is what they could get at home. The presumption is that when one pays a premium price, they are getting something more "professional."

I may stand alone here but I will take a 16mm showing over a DVD any day. Depending on the system, I might take it over a BluRay or I might take the BluRay. As anyone that has run a lot of 16mm will tell you...the print quality varies wildly (not just in damage but in actual dupe quality). I like 16mm...it remains my preferred documentary format (for watching). There is something just so comfortable about it...perhaps it is what I grew up with but I just like the look of it.

Steve

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 10-27-2010 05:12 PM

I would not knowingly buy a ticket to see a home-video on the big screen. In fact, there aren't that many movies (contemporary or repertory) that would get me out of my house, even on film.

I've run repertory prints of many movies and, while I love *showing* movies, rep prints are usually too flawed/compromised for me to enjoy as a spectator.

Even with new movies, when I consider the TOTAL COST of going to the movies (including the out-of-control ticket prices, the hassle of adhering to a showtime schedule, dealing with traffic, parking and an increasingly annoying, ill-mannered audience)most experiences don't justify the cost.

So, if "film done right" isn't enough to get me out of the house, Home Video certainly ain't gonna do it.

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Jeremy Weigel
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1062
From: Edmond, OK, USA
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 10-27-2010 05:12 PM

I wonder if they would have been just as upset if it had been a DCinema copy they were watching?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 10-27-2010 06:25 PM

Probably not...DCinema has a notably better look than DVD and even BluRay...particularly on larger screens.

Though there remains something sanitary about video versus film.

Now 10-20 years from now when there will be people in their 20-30s that have not really had film at all in their daily lives, you might just see the opposite...folks that don't want to see a film version as it is "flawed."

For now, it is often the reverse, particularly in "rep" houses.

Like Manny, it takes a lot to get me to a theatre anymore...I just don't like the experience. 70mm will do it though. I generally have the stipulation...for me to see a movie, they must have a grand drape, and it must have a projectionist and ideally changeover operation (no platters). That severely limits my choices, nowadays. Fortunately, the AFI/Silver is close enough though they don't run mainstream movies 1st run.

Steve

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Jeremy Weigel
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1062
From: Edmond, OK, USA
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 10-27-2010 07:39 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
Though there remains something sanitary about video versus film.

This very true. For me its the ultra sharp image, no indication imperfection in the image, and absolutely no jump or weave.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 10-27-2010 07:40 PM

Scaling and all of its derivatives have only one l. [Smile]

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-27-2010 08:53 PM

quote: Ian Parfrey
we use nothing more that what the patron uses at home to sell that experience, then they have every right to feel ripped off.

I don't really agree with that. I guess I don't know about everyone else but here, if we do show a DVD, it goes through the same projector and sound system that we use to show movies on, and the picture is the same size as it is with a regular movie. So it's not exactly like they're watching a TV on a wall.

In our one DVD show, we did announce the fact that it was a DVD and everyone seemed to be happy....in fact the only comment I got was that the movie was "pretty darn rough" for a PG film!

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 10-27-2010 09:14 PM

I never said that DCinema didn't have imperfections...actually, quite the opposite. I find the DCinema image VERY flawed...the lack of the ability to have non-stair-stepped lines or perception of depth I find quite disturbing. The sharpness you see is a lack of detail that I see.

Steve

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David E. Nedrow
Master Film Handler

Posts: 368
From: Columbus, OH, USA
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 10-27-2010 09:15 PM

I have to admit, I've asked for my money back when attending a repertory screening and it turns out to be a DVD. It's not an issue if they were to let me know in advance, but I don't like showing up, paying my gold, and then have a DVD projected.

My wife and I basically stopped going to the Ohio Theatre Summer Movie Series because they have gone to DVD more and more. Worse still, they sometimes refuse to tell people -- even when called in advance -- what format is playing.

If we do something from DVD/Blu-Ray/MPEG-4, we always note that it is a "Digital Presentation". That's all I ask as a patron, so I owe it to our customers to do the same.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-27-2010 09:22 PM

Agreed with David--advertising is the key here. If the program says "35mm," then I fully expect that the theatre will show a 35mm print, and would be disappointed if it showed something else (except maybe 70mm). If the program does not state the format, and the theatre normally shows 35mm film, then I think that it is reasonable for the patrons to assume that the feature will be 35mm, and to be angry if the theatre shows a different format.

If the program says DVD, 16mm, Digi-Beta, HDCAM, etc., then patrons can make an informed decision about whether to take time out of their schedule and cash out of their pockets to see the show. Some only want to see film, some prefer video, and most won't care.

As I posted elsewhere, I do believe that films made before the mid-2000s (or made later, but not released in [dlp]

) should be shown on film in repertory engagements. In the case of Psycho, Mr. Hitchcock made a _film_. Not a DVD, not a videotape, not a series of bits on a magnetic platter, but an actual film, which was intended to be presented as film. To show it in another format (without making that fact clear in advance, preferably along with some reasoning (e.g. "35mm print not available" or "no good 35mm prints available") would be like holding an art exhibition with photographic reproductions instead of actual paintings. Is it better to see the reproduction than not see the work at all? Sure. But that isn't the right way to showcase artwork.

One case that I find interesting is 16mm vs. video when a proper 35mm print is unavailable. Each has its virtues. The problem is that 16mm prints are pretty much all over the map in terms of quality, but some are truly beautiful. I would not wish a pan-and-scan or badly faded 16mm print on anyone, but for something shot in Academy and with mono sound, it can sometimes look much better (or, at least, closer to the original) than the video copy.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 10-27-2010 09:31 PM

if i liked the movie enough i'd see it via d-cinema if it was a restoration or at least a fresh dci scan off the negative

film "purists" really bug me when they cite film's "imperfections" as if it's something so wonderful. which imperfections? oh, you mean the ones we've spent our whole (collective) careers trying to minimize and/or eliminate? like grain, jump and weave? strobing? dust and dirt? scratches?

i love handling film and i love projecting film -- i like the toys and it reminds me of my childhood -- but given a choice to see a movie on film or via d-cinema presented at somebody else's cinema? i usually choose d-cinema.

that's right. i said that out loud.

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Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-28-2010 08:40 AM

Getting back to perceptions and reality, how many outside of the purists who are not on this list, really care if it is a DVD?

Judging from my conversations with the public, they think everything we show and everything shown at the commercial cinemas here is a DVD. They also think we have a library of film upstairs [Wink]

Of the 110 people who saw Psycho from DVD, 2 complained. The rest of the audience applauded at the end. This is not a plea for appealing to the lowest common denominator, but an observation that going to the movies is something different to the format in which it is presented.

That and the movie industry has trained audiences for a couple of decades to accept the worst possible presentations without complaining.

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