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Author
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Topic: Sony Hack Hits Home
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 12-29-2014 08:48 PM
quote: Joe Redifer
Like David Lynch says (and I paraphrase): "You won't get the same experience watching the movie on your phone. You'll think you did, but you didn't". People just don't care as they think the experience is the same no matter where and how the movie is delivered.
The people who don't care how they watch a movie will still care that they're watching a real movie, even if they're watching it on their smart phone via some shitty looking camcorder bootleg uploaded to YouTube or whatever.
I wonder how many of those clowns will still watch a camcorder bootleg on their phone when the bootleg is a videotaped image of some dude's TV set playing a lower budget made for TV movie. Probably not very many.
Both movie studios and movie theaters need to be working together to improve the movie-going experience enough to make customers feel like they're missing out by waiting to see any movie at home.
quote: Martin McCaffery
Bobby, you forgot the sales and property taxes generated by the megaplexes. One film like Mockingly at one of the megaplexes in this town will generate more taxes in a week or two than my single screen will all year.
I forgot about property tax revenues and neighboring retail/service businesses that would get hit by the failure of an "anchor" business such as a multiplex movie theater.
Carmike is building a new 13-screen complex that, from what I can see based on construction progress, looks a lot bigger than their existing 8-plex here (that theater opened 20 years ago this month). Aside from the theater, the site is supposed to have at least a couple or more new businesses built adjacent to it so the whole thing functions as an entertainment destination. I heard rumors that Dave & Busters is planning a new location there, which would really surprise the hell out of me since D&B is usually only in much larger cities, but they seem to be on an expansion kick.
Meanwhile, a new shopping complex here on 2nd Street has been struggling. Some of that had to do with the I-44, 2nd Street & Cache Road interchange being all blocked off with construction for much of this year. Another problem is this new shopping center doesn't have any restaurants and other entertainment options attached to it. Shoppers want to do more than merely go into a store, buy something and leave. Central Mall is just down the street. They have a small 12-plex theater inside the mall, as well as a food court and a bunch of other stuff. Obviously it's a lot more busy.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 12-30-2014 07:01 PM
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for an apology to North Korea from the United States' government. Considering all the anti-American propaganda the North Korean government pumps out daily the US government's hack accusations are seem pretty minor. By the way, the FBI is sticking to its claims the North Korean government had a hand in the Sony hack.
If the Sony hack does happen to be an inside job and the half dozen or so people within North America possibly involved are brought up on charges it will be pretty brutal for those that are charged. The disgruntled Sony employee could easily be facing decades in prison and countless millions of dollars worth of civil court judgments. The courts are bound to make examples out of those involved in the Sony hack if they have the chance to do so.
quote: Marcel Birgelen
The perception will indeed be a leading factor, but leaving Hollywood Accounting practices aside, I presume we expect Hollywood to deliver more financially successful movies than failures.
My predictions would work either way. It wouldn't make any difference if the movie studios were cranking out lots of hits or they fell into a bad slump. For now, they're still showing brand new movies exclusively. Customers do visit theaters as something to do just to get out of the house, but they do so with the understanding the theaters are showing something they can't see at home.
Even if a couple drives to a movie theater, not even knowing what's playing, and they find the choices there don't look all that interesting, they're still likely to hold their noses and pick something. If Hollywood is in a slump, but only releasing crappy movies to view on TV sets at home, the same couple might not pick anything from the studio. Instead, they may go out to eat and then go get some drinks at a bar. Or if they stay home they'll just continue binge-watching some TV series on Netflix.
Certain bean counters in Hollywood have this fantasy they'll make even more money by releasing the movie on as many platforms as possible all at once. I'd like to know the evidence they're using to support those claims. I suspect some of these guys have a vested interest in home viewing-based movie business and intend to grow that at the expense of the theatrical side of the business.
There are more movie viewing platforms, but there are still only so many movie viewing customers in a given market and only so many dollars available they're going to spend on movie watching. Most customers always have their eyes out for a bargain. We've already seen what Netflix, Redbox, Amazon and iTunes have all done to wipe out lots of video stores, music stores and book stores. The paradigm shift of customers from traditional brick and mortar businesses to cheaper online alternatives was very swift. The same thing will happen with movie theaters if the movie studios pull the same kind of stunts.
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Marcel Birgelen
Film God
Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 12-31-2014 01:36 AM
quote: Bobby Henderson
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for an apology to North Korea from the United States' government. Considering all the anti-American propaganda the North Korean government pumps out daily the US government's hack accusations are seem pretty minor. By the way, the FBI is sticking to its claims the North Korean government had a hand in the Sony hack.
Not to defend North Korea in any way, because we all know what kind of crackpot government they have in place, but I highly doubt it was them. It really makes no sense at all. It's not like they're usually in any way reluctant in the propaganda they put out. But them vehemently denying any involvement and even calling for an international investigation doesn't match up with how they usually handle situations. They either would boldly claim to have learned the enemy a lesson or would not react at all. There really aren't any more sanctions you can impose on them and they know nobody will do anything considerable to them, even it it would be proven to be them...
Also, keep in mind that the evidence, which has been released up until now is almost solely based on the kind of malware being used. This malware is freely available for anyone.
quote: Bobby Henderson
If the Sony hack does happen to be an inside job and the half dozen or so people within North America possibly involved are brought up on charges it will be pretty brutal for those that are charged. The disgruntled Sony employee could easily be facing decades in prison and countless millions of dollars worth of civil court judgments. The courts are bound to make examples out of those involved in the Sony hack if they have the chance to do so.
When the time comes, it would be interesting to see what kind of precedent they would set. It certainly wouldn't be the first case where important trade secrets and IP would have leaked out of a major U.S. and international corporation, but the scale of it all is a rather unique event. In any case, it would suck to be "them" ![[Wink]](wink.gif) .
quote: Mike Blakesley
I guess I don't see where the US is all of a sudden the "bad guy" in any of this. First, we didn't go bomb anybody in reaction to this hacking; Obama just said he thought North Korea was responsible, based on patterns observed in previous hacks, and that there would be a response. Add the fact that NK already hates us and it's no surprise the government would come to that conclusion.
Perhaps you're not really aware of the image the U.S. has created of themselves in the rest of the world in the last 14 or so years. This is not my personal opinion talking here, just rather the facts how unfortunate it really is. It has moved from "generally positive" to "highly skeptical" in the "western" part of the world. In large parts of the rest of the world it has moved from "highy skeptical" to "sub zero". Those premature accusations aren't really helping to bolster up this image. Not trying to move this into a political discussion, but you might remember the airliner shot down over the Ukraine last summer. Since the majority of the people on board were Dutch, it was rather a matter of national importance around here. Still, nobody here really appreciated when Obama put the finger squarely at the Russians, before anything was clear at all. In the end it also only helped to further frustrate the recovery operations. So nobody was helped by those "bold", premature statements at all.
Also, nobody is defending any of the heinous crimes North Korea commits against their own people, but accusing them of something they (possibly) didn't do is not helping your own credibility, it's actually rather immature.
It takes more balls to say sorry and take the blame than to continue holding on to your story, even if you’re proven wrong in the end.
quote: Bobby Henderson
Certain bean counters in Hollywood have this fantasy they'll make even more money by releasing the movie on as many platforms as possible all at once. I'd like to know the evidence they're using to support those claims. I suspect some of these guys have a vested interest in home viewing-based movie business and intend to grow that at the expense of the theatrical side of the business.
Up until now it's primarily from the likes of Netflix we hear those kind of voices. But they surely do have a strong lobby. Let's just hope Hollywood continues to resist them and their obviously broken theories. No doubt some of them will try to test the waters again with some smaller release. Let's just hope it explodes in their face, much like it did this time.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 12-31-2014 11:01 AM
quote: Marcel Birgelen
Not to defend North Korea in any way, because we all know what kind of crackpot government they have in place, but I highly doubt it was them. It really makes no sense at all.
The North Korean government has been implicated in numerous cyber attacks, particularly on South Korean and Japanese state & business firms. They have been suspected in previous attacks on American firms. FBI investigators found striking similarities in those attacks and the latest attack on Sony. While some people may claim the US government's case against North Korea is weak, the FBI wouldn't have pulled its conclusions out of thin air. There had to be some compelling evidence there for them to make their accusations.
I'm sure the FBI and other parts of our criminal justice system are investigating the other leads, like the disgruntled ex-Sony employee sacked last May. But they're not going to ease up off this North Korea lead either.
quote: Marcel Birgelen
When the time comes, it would be interesting to see what kind of precedent they would set. It certainly wouldn't be the first case where important trade secrets and IP would have leaked out of a major U.S. and international corporation, but the scale of it all is a rather unique event. In any case, it would suck to be "them"
Why do you have the happy face applied to that comment?
Some people might find the hack of Sony's network entertaining. I don't. This hacking crap makes me angry because it costs many businesses and individual computer users a lot of time and money. It pisses me off even more knowing there's quite a few fools who think see black hats hackers as pop culture heroes.
Some people have the attitude Sony deserved to be hacked for some of its security policy errors. If a a person burglarizes a house whose doors are unlocked that person is still a piece of shit criminal with no moral integrity. The same thing goes for those hackers. I could see lawyers for those hackers trying to use Sony's security policy problems as a means of defense if the hackers are ever caught, charged and brought to trial. But using Sony's problems as a rationale for hacking is exactly the same as a rapist saying his victim looked sexy in her dress and just asking for it.
quote: Marcel Birgelen
Not trying to move this into a political discussion, but you might remember the airliner shot down over the Ukraine last summer. Since the majority of the people on board were Dutch, it was rather a matter of national importance around here. Still, nobody here really appreciated when Obama put the finger squarely at the Russians, before anything was clear at all. In the end it also only helped to further frustrate the recovery operations. So nobody was helped by those "bold", premature statements at all.
That's quite a reach. Who else do you think shot down that plane?
I just love how politicians from other nations or their citizens are so quick to take part in moral hand wringing over things the US government or military does. Yet those same people prefer to sit in isolation, doing nothing, while the real monsters in this world butcher people by the thousands. They quietly let the United States spend huge sums of its taxpayers' money and contribute great numbers of personnel to the cause of being the world's police man while they provide little if any help at all to the cause (thus saving many billions of dollars). I could also go into how the United States' financial and investment system is propping up much of the world's economy. When that housing speculation/fraud bubble in the US burst late last decade it took down big parts of the world economy with it. Europe was a huge investor in that mess.
quote: Marcel Birgelen
Up until now it's primarily from the likes of Netflix we hear those kind of voices. But they surely do have a strong lobby. Let's just hope Hollywood continues to resist them and their obviously broken theories. No doubt some of them will try to test the waters again with some smaller release. Let's just hope it explodes in their face, much like it did this time.
Netflix is where movies go to die after they've exhausted themselves in other platforms. Studio executives need to realize there's a huge difference between a couple spending over $50 at a theater on tickets and refreshments just to see one single movie versus spending $8 per month to watch however many TV shows and movies they want on Netflix. If those executives want to take their chances they'll get caught in awful race to the bottom economics and wind up cratering their businesses in the end.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 12-31-2014 12:57 PM
quote: Mike Blakesley
There are a lot of articles along the lines of, "Maybe this successful VOD/theatrical release will change the game and help erase the windows" type of article coming in my email thru NATO.
The guys writing those articles are arguably doing more to advocate for the Internet and Internet-based businesses (along with promoting their online presence) rather than thinking about the overall health of the movie industry.
quote: Mike Blakesley
One writer even said, "It's obvious, VOD blew the theatrical away...this is the way of the future!" Uh no, Bozo, the movie was only in 331 theaters. Try comparing apples to apples sometime.
They're blind from being able to do that due to their biased and narrow point of view. They can't bother to imagine movie studios might actually lose a lot of money by pushing online VOD up front with the theatrical release.
The unavoidable fact is customers will never pay anywhere near as much to watch a movie once in their homes versus seeing it once in a commercial movie theater. At home, someone clicks the $5.99 buy button to rent The Interview and then there's no telling how many pairs of eyeballs are watching the screen.
So really I have to laugh at anyone looking at this as a contest of online vs. theatrical release. Anyone doing so is an idiot. When online VOD "wins" the movie studio succeeds in beating itself. "Congratulations, movie studio executives! You've helped Online WIN by convincing people to see the movie at home for a lot less money! Here's your lots less money now!" If the movie studios chooses to do this on a widespread basis it will beat itself to ruin. And then online doesn't won't have shit for movies to show. Without big Hollywood movies to stream the online world would lose a big selling point for high speed Internet service. Yeah, that's a real fucking big win there.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Marcel Birgelen
Film God
Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 01-01-2015 10:42 AM
First off all, a Happy New Year to everyone! Let this year bring us better movies than the last one!
quote: Steve Guttag
That's it...with those sorts of statements...we need to add the Netherlands to the "Axis of Evil[doers]". We in the USA are AWESOME! (I saw that on the TV recently...well actually I saw it on Facebook that had a link to a YouTube of a TV program). Just remember, we took the name of "Americans" despite being just a portion of one half of the "Americas".
Great, I've heard they have AWESOME cookies on the Dark Side™. Who else wants to join? We've got many cows here, so we can provide the milk. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
quote: Bobby Henderson
The North Korean government has been implicated in numerous cyber attacks, particularly on South Korean and Japanese state & business firms. They have been suspected in previous attacks on American firms. FBI investigators found striking similarities in those attacks and the latest attack on Sony.
The problem here is, the claims of those three letter agencies don't really have any credibility left outside the borders of the U.S. unfortunately. Claims without hard evidence just remain that: claims. The general reaction is similar to this: Uh-huh. Let's just wait and see... Also, many of those claims have been barely substantiated the last times and building proof on basis of previously questionable evidence doesn't help either.
Some of those other hacks might be more in line with North Korean interests though. Them forcing down the systems of a major South Korean banking firm for example, makes a whole lot more sense than them hacking a movie studio because of a stupid movie. (This motivation from the hackers actually came later, their first motivation was something else.)
quote: Bobby Henderson
Why do you have the happy face applied to that comment?
If you look again you'll see it's a wink and not a happy face...
The comment was meant as an understatement. If it turns out to be the disgruntled ex-employees, I guess it essentially means their life is over as they will spend the next years in courts, jail and paying off the damages and fines the rest of their rather miserable lives.
quote: Bobby Henderson
Some people might find the hack of Sony's network entertaining. I don't. This hacking crap makes me angry because it costs many businesses and individual computer users a lot of time and money. It pisses me off even more knowing there's quite a few fools who think see black hats hackers as pop culture heroes.
Well, I'm not looking entirely without a sense of irony at this unfolding soap, but if you look at my other comments, you'll see that at least I won't call this whole episode funny. The problem is, Sony isn't a company that can count on very much sympathy from a lot of people and the way they're handling the situation isn’t helping their case either. But a black hat hacker or whatever you want to call them doesn't deserve any respect at all. They're just a bunch of criminals and in my opinion a lot of them get away from it far too easy.
Still, look at it this way: If you're running a bank and you leave the door to your safe open at all times, because it's easier for your employees... what do you expect the reaction of the public will be once you get robbed and everything in your safe is gone? You’re a bank, aren't you supposed to have some levels of security in place?
quote: Bobby Henderson
That's quite a reach. Who else do you think shot down that plane?
Have you been following the news actually? Because you do know there's an important difference between the Russians and the Russian minded rebels?
If you ask me, I would say, most probably the rebels and that's also the general consensus around here. If they did it with or without Russian interference is really hard to tell, given the fact that there's only fragmented evidence and everybody is just pointing fingers at each other.
But, if you would ask the average Russian, they would say it was the CIA (and no, I’m really not kidding...) if you would ask the average "American" they would say the Russians. While the first one might be quite a stretch, the later one is also rather uninformed.
It seems that many (or most?) regions of their world are somehow subject to their own forms of propaganda in one way or another...
quote: Bobby Henderson
I just love how politicians from other nations or their citizens are so quick to take part in moral hand wringing over things the US government or military does.
Yet those same people prefer to sit in isolation, doing nothing, while the real monsters in this world butcher people by the thousands. They quietly let the United States spend huge sums of its taxpayers' money and contribute great numbers of personnel to the cause of being the world's police man while they provide little if any help at all to the cause (thus saving many billions of dollars). I could also go into how the United States' financial and investment system is propping up much of the world's economy. When that housing speculation/fraud bubble in the US burst late last decade it took down big parts of the world economy with it. Europe was a huge investor in that mess.
We're heading in directions I don't really want to go, still... Without claiming this being exclusively my own viewpoint, because in the real world, stuff is almost never just black or white. But maybe you could consider this: Why are "our" morals better than "theirs"? Maybe they're simply not interested in our "morals" and our "first world do-gooding"? Maybe "they" could actually see those interventions as some kind of imperialistic behavior, motivated by other interests than just "the greater good"? And even if "they" essentially are bad with a capital B, do you really think any military intervention of whatever sort is really going to fix this? Look at history as proof of itself, practically none of the military interventions by "the West" of the last 15 or so years, whatever their cause and costs, has really made the world a better place and it's not like there is any kind of breakthrough on the horizon. And if we're talking about real monsters and the actual subject at hand, what has "the West" done about North Korea lately? Millions of people seem to have died in that country from starvation alone in the last 20 years. So, just maybe, the current strategy isn't really working out, or maybe the strategy only serves the wrong people?
quote: Bobby Henderson
If those executives want to take their chances they'll get caught in awful race to the bottom economics and wind up cratering their businesses in the end.
The biggest threat probably doesn't come from the current Hollywood studios, but rather from the likes of Netflix themselves. They're already producing Netflix exclusive content in the form of TV series and they have sufficient money in the bank to bankroll Hollywood style productions. Netflix themselves signed a five-movie exclusive deal with Adam Sandler for example. I really despise Adam Sandler, so him gone will probably raise the average quality of cinema, but it's clear which direction they're heading. I doubt they will get the economics straight for the foreseeable future, but I'm afraid they also won't stop trying.
quote: Bobby Henderson
At home, someone clicks the $5.99 buy button to rent The Interview and then there's no telling how many pairs of eyeballs are watching the screen.
Not to give them any stupid ideas, but maybe, in the future you need to have a webcam connected to your TV/Set-top-box/playback thingy at all times, to verify if only the licensed numbers of eyeballs are watching .
quote: Mike Blakesley
And probably a few of the pirate-watchers would have bought tickets too. Probably would have had at least a $40 to $50 million opening if the wide theatrical release had gone on with that kind of publicity (and had there not been death threats).
While those threats might have motivated a select few not to go to the movie, I would think it would at least have motivated the same amount of people to go view this very movie to make a statement.
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