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Author Topic: Washington State Legislators are Digging Themselves Into A Hole Ray Brown Expert Film Handler Posts: 111 From: Dayton, WA, USA Registered: Sep 2002 posted 01-20-2003 09:36 PM                        quote: I guess we'll have to start squeezing harder until they finally get the word that we had enough of their BS. Maybe it's time to get the vice grips out.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 01-23-2003 09:36 PM                     Oh, boy ... In tonight's paper, the legislators hope to drive home a message. I think they have that backwards. I sent both of our area clowns an email about the $92,656,000 annual pay roll for FY 2002 of the Washington State Ferries. I calculated that out to $253,852.05 daily payroll, based on 7 days a week. I don't know what they pay their staff, but one thing is if it was $50 per hour, that would indicate a staff of 5,077 people running about 20 boats! Hmmm....50 bucks an hour for an 8-hour day at 5 days a week = $108.000.00 a year! Not bad....I think I will send them a resume. I'll bet I don't get an answer...  |  IP: Logged Martin Brooks Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 900 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 01-23-2003 10:44 PM                        I believe that most governments are very inefficient and incompetent at best and corrupt at worst. But having said that, there are basic services that have to be provided by government and once you start paying salaries and rents on office space, it really adds up. Just do the math. Here in NYC, between the cops, firefighters, sanitation workers and teachers, there are something like 140,000 workers. If the average salary with benefits (and benefits constitute at least 30%) is $50K, that's already $7 billion. And that doesn't count the bureaucracy, health workers, costs of city property, bridge maintenance, etc. But just that $7 billion costs each man, woman and child over $1100. And that's just the City. But that's the reality of a modern life. I happen to believe in progressive taxes. Since those at the lower end of the economic scale have to spend a higher percentage of their income on basics, such as food and housing, they should have to spend less on taxes. Those at the lower end of the economic scale also have less access to all of the deductions that higher income people can take and also less access to accountants who know how to work the system. As far as your complaints about gas taxes go, I invite any of you to drive in Europe. Gas in the US, including all the taxes costs 1/3 to 1/4 of gas in Europe. And while we all complain about $1.80 a gallon gas, that is actually less, including inflation, than we paid in 1966, when gas was about 45 cents a gallon. The inflation rate between 1966 and 2002 is 5.6. For those of you who think that road taxes, gas taxes and tolls should only go towards road improvement and mass transit should pay for itself, that is a ridiculous assumption. There is no mass transit system in the world that is self supporting. And that's aside from the issue of pollution, etc. Once again, the US spends less on mass transit than any other western country. There was an interesting article in the NY Times the other day which shows the actual distribution of taxes across income groups. If you count all federal taxes and not just personal income taxes, it works out as follows. Note that the following percentages are NOT tax rates -- rather they're the percentage of taxes paid into the total pie. I suppose, based on this, there will be arguments on both sides. Some will feel that it demonstrates just how unfair the system is to those at the higher end of the income scale and others will decry how it should be much more progressive than it is. The top 1% income group are those who earn $373,000 and higher. They pay 24% of all federal taxes paid. The next 4% earns from $147K to $373K. They pay 17% of all federal taxes. The next 15% earns from $72K to $147K. They pay 27% of all federal taxes. The next 20% earns from $44K to $72K. They pay 18% of all federal taxes. The next 20% earns from $27K to $44K. They pay 9% of all federal taxes. The next 20% earns from $15K to $27K. They pay 4% of all federal taxes. The lowest 20% earns less than $15K. They pay 1% of all federal taxes.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 01-23-2003 10:52 PM                     Martin, correct me if I am wrong, but this country runs on oil. I think we depend on it more than any other country in the world. They have to keep the fuel prices down, otherwise we are in very deep grave shit! The movie "3 Days of Condor" comes to mind.....  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-07-2003 03:25 PM                     In today's local rag, I gues a senior senator said said something along the line that Washington State's popular initiave process should be banned. It goes further to say that he said initiatives are damaging the state budget and underminding the basic precepts of representative government. However, the chair if the Senate Governmental Operations committee said she had no plans to schedule a hearing on the measure. She stated, "I don't favor it. A majority doesn't favor it. The people don't favor it. Initiatives allow citizen participation in legislating. Kudos for this lady.... And, to Senator Jacobsen of Seattle, the one who wants to ban initiatives. I wonder how some of these people get into office, and I wonder what they are smoking.  |  IP: Logged Greg Mueller Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1687 From: Port Gamble, WA Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-07-2003 04:14 PM                        I've been thinking lately that we should make the I-5 corridor a state at least as far north as Everett and down below Tacoma. We could call it "The Peoples Republic of I-5". Everytime I watch an election, I see the entire state vote one way and the PRI-5 votes the other way and they win becaue they have the population density. Who knows, maybe if we did that, they could become a suburb of Baghdad, and "Baghdad Jim" McDimwit would be happy. All I'm really sure of is that I'm getting tired of being ruled by some morons over in Bellevue (via Olympia)  |  IP: Logged Ray Brown Expert Film Handler Posts: 111 From: Dayton, WA, USA Registered: Sep 2002 posted 02-07-2003 05:01 PM                        quote: Everytime I watch an election, I see the entire state vote one way and the PRI-5 votes the other way and they win becaue they have the population density. We have been saying that for years on this side of the Cascades. I wonder who King & Pierce counties have lined up to be our next gov?  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-07-2003 08:51 PM                     I'm on Diesel Power generator right now, so I better make this quick. I forgot to order Diesel Fuel, so I don't know how much I have left. Some idiot smacked a power pole with his SUV (from what it looked like, anyway) and knocked out all the power out in the community I reside in. Anyway, one thing the state is doing (or considering) is to turn the rest areas over to private enterprize. That might work, and that might fly. Many states do that on the turnpikes. However, the way I took the article, what made me laugh when I read the name McDonalds....Yeah! (The hamburger people) was mentioned. Soooo...I wonder what they will call the rest stops? The paper mentioned something about McRest areas....  |  IP: Logged Charles Everett Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: New Jersey Registered: May 2001 posted 02-09-2003 04:50 PM                     Funny you bring up rest stops, Paul. There's a rest area on I-295 in South Jersey that's named for Howard Stern. Sad to say, the funding for that rest area got zeroed out in the New Jersey state budget announced last week. Also zeroed out from the New Jersey state budget was the State Council on the Arts -- the state agency that finances Snob Culture. (I included a reference to this in my review of Chicago.) There has been much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the press over this. The council didn't get zeroed out for political or religious reasons; it got zeroed out because the state government does not have enough money, period!  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-09-2003 07:04 PM                     And then, of course, there was a big flap about public outhouses. Seems Washington State built a 3-holer on top of some damn mountain where the mountain pass is closed for somethins greater than 7 months out of the year. It costed about $750,000 to build it! If memory serves me correctly, that was about 10 years ago.  |  IP: Logged David Rigby Expert Film Handler Posts: 134 From: Chorlton, Manchester, UK Registered: May 2002 posted 02-11-2003 06:10 AM                     Well, I was going to chip in but given that even the most moderate contributors so far make me look like a communist (which I'm not), I don't think I'll bother. Suffice to say though that the only people who argue against a welfare state are those who don't need it. Things can change guys... David  |  IP: Logged Greg Mueller Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1687 From: Port Gamble, WA Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-11-2003 09:08 AM                        Well once again the gov of the ST-O-WA has shown what they are made of. They are now challenging the latest succesful initiative (by the people) to have $30 car tabs. (Which number is this...#3?) Maybe we should have an initiative that makes it illegal for the idiots in Olympia to challenge any initiative put forth and approved BY THE PEOPLE. Is that socialist enough?  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-12-2003 10:21 PM                     Initiative Would Declare Activist a 'Horse's Ass' A "horse's ass" is no laughing matter to Washington Attorney General Christine Gregoire. She is asking a judge to bar a collection of signatures on Initiative 831, which would declare anti-tax initiative guru Tim Eyman a "horse's ass." Gregoire claims the measure is frivolous and the state cannot be forced to use "vulgar terms." The initiative's sponsor, David Goldstein, says he filed it to point out how easy it is to abuse the process. Over the past six years, Eyman has introduced no fewer than eight statewide initiatives, several of which have been struck down by the courts as unconstitutional. Neither Eyman nor Goldstein is an elected official, however, Eyman calls the measure "hilarious." He says it will only give him the positive publicity he needs to pursue other tax-cutting initiatives. Greg, as you know, I-776 was just declared unconstitutional. So, you folks in King, Snohomish and some other county will continue to pay through the nose on car license renewal fees.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-15-2003 01:26 AM                     Now the Thurston County Superior Court is hearing the case about the initiative about the "Horse's Ass.." OLYMPIA -- It was a solemn judicial disquisition on the true meaning and intent of the term "horse's ass." As in whether Tim Eyman, the anti-tax initiative guru, is or is not one. Lawyers yesterday debated whether Washington voters should be confronted on the fall ballot with such indelicate language or with a more genteel if less descriptive phrase instead. Thurston County Superior Court Judge Gary Tabor heard arguments over the proper ballot summary for a proposed Initiative 831, proclaiming Eyman to be a horse's ass. The issue was whether the summary should contain that phrase, as the initiative does, or an almost comically bland substitute drafted by the state Attorney General's Office. The judge ruled halfway in between. If I-831, filed by Donald Goldstein of Seattle, survives a further court challenge by the attorney general and qualifies for the ballot, it will be described to voters as "a resolution labeling (Eyman) using a vernacular term that denotes the back end of a horse." Tabor said he chose that wording after toying briefly -- and tongue in cheek -- with a ballot summary saying, "This initiative refers to the south end of a northbound horse." Goldstein, who was traveling yesterday, has said he filed the initiative to parody how Eyman has perverted the initiative process by submitting tax-limiting ballot measures that are passed but then found to be unconstitutional, and by secretly pocketing campaign donations and lying about it. Tabor rejected the attorney general's vague language after closely quizzing John Widell, Goldstein's attorney, about exactly what the initiative was attempting to legislate. "You're not indicating that Mr. Eyman would actually become part of a horse, are you?" Tabor asked. "No . . . Mr. Eyman is to be proclaimed a horse's ass," Widell replied. "You're not attempting to proclaim him something other than a human being, are you?" the judge persisted. No, Widell assured him. The Attorney General's Office, which is charged with writing initiative ballot titles, was sued by Goldstein after writing a ballot description that didn't even name Eyman, let alone mention "horse's ass." It would have called the initiative a resolution describing "a citizen . . . with a disparaging term that denotes a self-important, silly or stupid person." Tabor asked assistant attorney general Jim Pharris from what legal citation he obtained that definition of "horse's ass." "We got that out of some dictionary," said Pharris, who admitted it wasn't really a dictionary description of "horse's ass" but rather one of several definitions of "ass." Pharris said it shouldn't be necessary to use language that some might find offensive, and added, "The question here is whether (Goldstein) can commandeer the Attorney General's Office and force us to use language that he has chosen." "The attorney general is not supposed to play elementary school librarian here," retorted Widell, accusing the attorney general of censorship. Tabor will hear arguments later this month on another challenge to I-831: the attorney general's contention that it is not a "bill or act" but a resolution and therefore doesn't qualify as an initiative under the state constitution. Eyman, who has refused to act insulted by the initiative, said last night that the judge's language change "did (Goldstein) a favor because he ended up making the measure more popular because it's easier to vote for an initiative that's funny than an initiative that's crass." Eyman said he intends to vote for it. A footnote: In another article, Eyman filed another initiative that will bilge the Gov's $2 Billion (not including cost overruns) 21 mile light rail project. It will probably fly. Nobody will benefit from it except those who live in Seattle-Tacoma area. Let's see.....$2 Billion???? For 21 miles of cheap railroad track?....hmmmmm....and our state is $2.4 Billion in the hole..... OK...Once again, welcome to our Zoo.  |  IP: Logged Greg Mueller Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1687 From: Port Gamble, WA Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-15-2003 08:13 AM                        Paul Thankfully I live in Kitsap county, so I don't get nailed for the over $30 extra taxes. I do have to pay extra for vanity plates, but that's my choice. One thing that I find bizarre about Eyman's initiatives and the reaction to them is that these bills are continuously approved by the voters (which means the majority of us) yet the state government refuses to follow the wishes of the people. I thought our elected officials are supposed to be the facilitators of our wishes. Yet they continuously ignore what "we the people" want. This guy and the rest of the government can call Eyman anything they want, but aren't they just choosing (once again) to ignore the real issue? The voters have said repeatedly that they want $30 car tabs. When will the government understand that $30 means $30? Maybe Eyman should introduce a bill that says that any initiative passed by the voters cannot be challenged by the greedos in Olympia  |  IP: Logged

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